Java Jo'z Controversy Gaining Attention Via Blogs

I think Ben Scoble's blog did have an e-mail from 'Morg' that stated his money would be refunded if he didn't find a suitable location.  Unfortunately, it looks like he took that e-mail down.

As far as calling him a 'tax evading monster', I think most of the information that has been used on this website was given to the readers by the US Department of Justice, which could probably care less about Cuppy's. 

I don't know if you've been part of a franchise before or not, but I have been on the 'sor' side and Blue MauMau does do a pretty good job of explaining to people the good sides and the bad sides of the franchising world.  I'll admit that the low blows by both pro & con Cuppy's respondents is uncalled for. 

Personally, I'd love to see a back and forth discussion on the Board on some of the points that everyone has seen and get some explanations.  I've read the UFOC and there are quite a few questions that I would be asking if I was a potential franchisee looking at Cuppy's. 

I think everyone's goal here is to see everyone succeed and to do that, people need to be informed of the pros/cons of certain franchises.  Cuppy's is in it's infancy stage right now.  People are upbeat, give it time and some franchisees will not see the returns they were looking for and they'll become disgruntled. 

Paul: Being that I was the only individual whose name you called out in public, I’ll respond publicly and directly!

PAUL:  The techie people at the BlueMauMau site have been making some progress. Hopefully, between the electronic trail and some information which has been coming in (annonymous and from sources not wishing to be named) will lead to prosecution.
As you know I respect your opinions and your knowledge.  As a child I was taught to do what’s “Right” just because it’s “Right”.  I’ve found you to normally fall down the line of what is “Right” simply because it’s “Right”.

It is my personal opinion that you initially took the wrong side of the Cuppy’s/Java Joe issue.  It appears as though fact or at least the court of public opinion this has proven that to be true. 

And then, you received ‘the letter’ from Nixon Peabody, bringing pride, ego and testosterone into the picture.  Personally I do not believe it was a good strategic move to have sent you such a letter.  I believe that you had, as many had, become board with the topic based on much conjecture.  However, the letter fueled the fire for you and many others.

And finally you were personally attacked by someone, and that was WRONG, and I stated that publicly in this forum.  You then announced that the post originated down around Destin, and insinuated that it was from Cuppy’s.  Perhaps it was, perhaps it wasn’t, perhaps it was one of the people who at the time were accusing Cuppy’s of being Java Joe’s and they knew if they made such a post that people would jump to the conclusion that it was Cuppy’s, thusly making Cuppy’s look bad.  I don’t know, but you and I both know that you can’t convict someone of sending an email just because it originated in a general vicinity of that person.

I believe this whole mess got started by people jumping to conclusions without supporting documentation.  It was compounded by people not dealing with the individuals or legal entities that could resolve the issues.  I’ve said all of this, in the hope that you will not be offended when with the utmost respect I say that I believe it is wrong for me or anyone else to jump to any conclusions based on what’s been up with the Blue Maumau site, and who or what was the cause.

PAUL: I have urged Mr. MauMau to contact the FBI, and would urge anyone with information about attacks on websites to contact their local FBI office. This is not a game, it is a major violation of federal law and if they catch the perpetrator there should be some jail time.
I have not seen nor have I heard an official statement from BlueMaumau, Inc. or from any of the principles that the website has been under attack.  Exclusive of the statement posted in the early a.m. of 1/25/2007 by Mr. Blue Maumau (or a person appearing to be Mr. Blue Maumau) that “Potential malicious-ware was found that may be overloading the server’s CPU…” So in light of the recent events please do not take offense when I reserve my right to withhold my opinion until such time that an “official” report is made vs a blog by a guest (even if it is you).  I do not believe you would intentionally lie to me or anyone else.  However, I do believe that a certain amount of objectivity has been lost in this entire discussion.

PAUL:  All persons posting on this blog should disclose if they have ever solicited or been offered something of value-- including free "evaluation" trips to sunny Florida in January, let alone "consulting" or similar offers-- by Cuppy's.  If you have, why not fess up?
I was contacted.  I was told that I seemed to be a fair individual, who looked at both sides, which contrary to popular opinion is what I try to do.  I was invited to come down, at my own expense so that it would not appear as though I had been “bought”.  I was informed that I could have full and complete access to EVERYTHING, if I would report my findings.  I was told that they (Cuppy’s) would sign a release so that what ever I reported Good, Bad or indifferent could not be held against me or my company.  My company is also represented by one of the oldest and most prestigious law firms in America and I was told that I could have them draft what ever documents I wanted to have drafted to protect me and my interest and that they (Cuppy’s) would sign those documents.  I was seriously considering going down, after all:

• it’s only a 5 and ½ hour drive for me,
• there’s some really nice golf courses there,
• my instincts & a little research told me that the Cuppy’s/Java Joe’s deal was a legal acquisition of assets.
• that regardless of what I may find, resolution would be good for both franchising and the franchisees caught in the middle of an unfortunate mess.

Prior to making a decision to go or not to go, that which appears to be the truth began to come out to my relief, because I really had no desire to get into a fight in which I had no dog. 

PAUL:  This is now far bigger than Cuppy’s or Java Jo’z or whatever it is called these days.
This is another one of those unnecessary slams.  I believe that most everyone has agreed that they are two separate entities, and that there was a legal asset purchase prior to the tax issues of Roy Snowden coming to light.

PAUL: It is about credible reports of serious violations of state and federal law.  I have already spoken to one of the regulators. I have spoken to several attorneys, and have informed one of Cuppy’s outside law firms (they have ones in Texas, Florida, Virginia and New York–that alone should tell you something) as to some specific facts which have been brought to my attention.
Again I choose not to jump to conclusions on unsubstantiated hearsay and wild accusations.  I can only assume based on the context of your post that you are referencing attacks on web servers.  If someone has broken the law, they should be tried and if found guilty, pay the appropriate civil or criminal penalty associated with those actions.  But I at this time have no knowledge of any such activities, or even that these types of activities have occurred.As for having attorney’s in multiple states, I’m really not sure what you are trying to imply.  This seems to me to be another one of those unnecessary slams.  You’re an Attorney, you know that you can only practice in those states in which you’re licensed to do so.  It is not unusual for an interstate business to have attorneys in states in which they have substantial business interest.  Merely by establishing nexus in a state you may have counsel in that state for the primary purpose of acting as Registered Agent.

PAUL: If this were just about a single company, the story would pass.  But where the response of a person or corporate entity strikes at the fundamental integrity of a larger structure (such as freedom of speech or franchise regulation or the security of the Internet from attack) there is necessarily a governmental concern which is far bigger than a spat among franchisees/franchisors.

I’ll say it again if laws have been broken which brought harm to others, the perpetrators of those crimes should be tried, and if found guilty, punished appropriately in accordance with the law.  Having said that, is what you describe not exactly what started this entire mess?  Was it not a person striking out at the fundamental integrity of a larger structure?  I was taught to protect me and mine.  IF and it’s a BIG IF, an entity being unjustifiably attacked by the blogging community did in take actions to self impose silence upon those attacking them, it is not justifiable in my mind, but it is understandable.  It is no different that the father who shoots and kills the neighbor who sexually assaults his child.  The shooting is unjustifiable however it is understandable.  I would hate to be in that position.  I have 4 young children, 3 daughters and 1 son, if someone brought harm to them, I’d hope that I’d be a big enough person to allow our justice system to deal with that individual, however I also hope that someone stopped me before I beat the individual to a bloody pulp.

PAUL:  And Dale, what is your comment about blogs being deleted from this site?
I’m again somewhat confused by the question(s). 

As for blogs being deleted from this site?  I know nothing about it.  I did not know any blogs had been deleted from this site.  I’ve read that some blog entries had been deleted from other sites.  I’ve seen the official post of Bluemaumau saying that some posts were lost due to an inadvertent deletion of a file, and other concurring events. 

PAUL:Why only blogs critical of Cuppy's?As I scroll through pages upon pages of entries, posts, replies, and responses in which Cuppy’s is mentioned here on Bluemaumau, I see many that are not what I would consider to be favorable of Cuppy’s, dating back to 1/08.  I do not see any obviously missing blog entries, perhaps they’ve since been restored or I’ll readily admit that I can not remember each and every blog entry, so if some are missing I probably would know it.

PAUL: And how do you feel about this website being hacked?First, I’ve heard no ‘official’ statement that there was an attack.  However attacks, I’ve learned can come from anywhere.  As some reading this are aware we (FranSynergy) are in the process of releasing our new corporate website by the end of the month.  The new site is using Technology which required we transition from a Linux server to a Windows server.  Our current data center only offered Linux servers so we had to establish a relationship with another data center.  We’ve had TERRIBLE speed issues with the new data-center which happens to be one of the largest, most secure data centers on earth.  Finally, just today, we find out that it has been the result of an attack from out of the country which was putting a terrible load on the server, and has now been resolved. The load caused a hard drive in the Raid 5 configuration to go bad, and need to be replaced and go through a ‘rebuild’ process which further compounded the problems.   Nothing was breached, no harm was done, but it was frustrating.  I’m sure that if Bluemaumau was hacked, that Bluemaumau and the data center will do all which is possible to track such attack and take the appropriate actions, which I agree they should do,

PAUL:  Do you think that the timing is a bit coincidental?
Coincidences do in fact occur that’s why they’re called coincidences.  You as an attorney know that you’re not likely to convict someone on a coincidence if they have competent legal counsel.  I might be more willing to easily accept the ‘timing’ theory if we did not know that Bluemaumau also just last weekend made changes in their hosting provider.  So in light of that, and my recent experiences previously explained, it’s much easier for me to believe that there recent problems are the result of transitioning to a new hosting provider.  I do not know that to be the case, and am not trying to in anyway bring harm to the new hosting provider.  However, it seems far more likely to me than a little Coffee Franchise in Florida, is hacking into servers all over the country.  Maybe they are, I don’t know.  But I’ll believe it when I see the evidence or when a court with proper jurisdiction convicts them of it.  Until then…I believe a lot of people jumped out based on presumptions and brought harm to Cuppy’s, the employees of Cuppy’s and the Franchisee’s of Cuppy’s.  Cuppy’s has since, it would appear to be innocent of all claims.  Therefore I think it is totally unfair to continue to beat up on them, as has been done by post like yours and that of the person accusing them of publicizing an illegal day care facility.   

Therefore, I continue to respect your knowledge and experience, but I’m not going to be so quick to condemn Cuppy’s of any wrong doing.  If they’re found guilty of something so be it!  The people I’m most concerned with are the Cuppy’s franchisees who have done no wrong, which is why I’ve offered to provide the FranSynergy Franchise Service Package to any existing Cuppy’s franchisee at half price.  If they’re open and can benefit from the service all they need to do is call and sign up.  If they’re under contract, but not yet open they can contact us and we’ll sign them when they do open.  I’ve also decided, to make the trip to Cuppy’s headquarters and announce our offering to the corporate staff so they can extend it to their franchisees.  I’m going to look the Cuppy’s people in the eye, and form my own opinion.  We’ve all heard the old saying “What are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes.”  Well I’m going to go see for myself, with my own eyes!  And quite frankly I don’t really care if I leave with the impression of them being snow white or black, because I’m not doing it for them.  I’m doing it for the innocent franchisee who’s just trying to make an honest living.  The next time someone wants to call me pro-franchisor…we’ll so be it, I know that you can’t have one without the other, which is why I maintain that I’m really just pro-franchising! 

Believe & Succeed,

Dale Nabors, COO
FranSynergy, Inc.
Synergizing Franchising 1 Franchise at a Time!
www.fransynergy.com  

There are two sides to every story.  While you say that they are whiners and lazy, they might say that Java Jo'z lied to them.  In my opinion, that is the point of this forum.  Giving people two sides of the story and letting people formulate their own opinion based on their experiences.   I've forumulated the opinion that I would never involve myself with Cuppy's.  Others might think otherwise. 

 I don't think the personal attacks are necessary.  Personally, when I read the posts by Trisha, I look at them knowing that there is a past history with the Snowdens, and I discount those.  When I read a press release from the Department of Justice on Roy Snowden's conviction for failure to pay taxes, I put a lot of validity on that.  You've obviously worked with the Snowden's for quite some time and have an allegiance with them.  However, you have to admit that Roy might not be as honest as you might have thought. 

And, just so you know, I hope that you (Cuppy's) aren't telling people that it 'pays off quickly', because in my opinion (I could be wrong) that could be used as an earnings statement.  Be careful with your wording if you are involved with the sales process.  It could get you in trouble. 

Ms. Harris has a point-- ad hominem attacks are neither appropriate nor productive. Ms. Harris' age and education are not in issue here-- the conduct of her employer is.

But I would suggest that Ms. Harris read

• the official Cuppy's comment
• and the letter from Cuppy's law firm

A neutral observer looking at the company's own statements is left with the impression that Cuppy's now has all the assets (and the professional expertise of persons such as Ms. Harris) and Java Joz is a judgment-proof shell company.

Ms. Harris is correct, and no doubt she can assist us in "knowing and understanding the real truth" by telling us specifically what factual allegations are incorrect.

It is commendable that Cuppy's and counsel to Cuppy's are offering their professional expertise (and marketing system and logos) to the former Java Joz folks.

But wasn't that what the Java Joe's folks paid for in the first place, or am I missing something?

Anyway, the previous blogger does owe Ms. Harris an apology, and I would hope that Ms. Harris will address the substantive points raised.

--Paul Steinberg, pwsteinberg@msn.com

Hey Rebecca,

I certainly did visit Suite 16 at 348 Miracle Strip Parkwary down there in Fort Walton Beach, but that was when "Cuppy" was only the mascot, and Java Jo'z was the name. In fact, many of us that were ripped off have been there in person...as in those who got burned by Ben Doyle and his partner, who is thankfully going to be getting his day in court soon.

If you're a new employee (I don't recognize your name) and have only worked for "Cuppy's" after the name change, perhaps you're in the dark, or just plain clueless.

At any rate, nobody expects an employee to try to stick up for those of us who got gipped, especially when they have no idea as to what took place.

Let me ask you, are you at all curious about why Ben Doyle's picture was just removed from the Cuppy's website?

Better yet, since you seem to be a newer employee, why don't you ask Ben Doyle about the Kat Sillick laptop incident....yeah that's right...some of us actually KNOW what goes on down there...go ahead ask him and watch his expression...and then think next time before posting from your heart, so that you don't look foolish by saying things implying you actually know what happened in terms of who visited your headquarters at Suite 16 and who didn't. Ironic that it is YOU making the "assumptions" based on what you don't actually know.

At the very, very, beginning of my problems I spoke to other people in the same boat.  One couple explained to me that the Snowdens, prior to starting Java Jo'z (and before they were involved in a rival coffee biz setup) ran magazine subscriptions where they do what Trisha explains.  Hire the kids to go door to door - usually lying about why they are selling (ie: "school fundraiser" or "a contest" of some kind).  We've all had 'em at the door at one time or another - they were running one of those.

...Facts contained in the indictment and to which Roy P. Snowden admitted during the plea hearing proved that Snowden was a businessman engaged in a variety of marketing and investment-type ventures, including a magazine distribution business. He had most recently been manufacturing and selling “Java Jo’z” drive-thru coffee businesses....
After the tax assessment, Roy P. Snowden admitted he transferred businesses and placed assets in others’ names, and created corporate entities which he used in part to transfer and hold money and property out of the reach of the IRS.  [emphasis mine]

Hmmm... sounds familiar, but I can't quite place it...

Sean Kelly

Wow...you put a lot into that post.  The word you used that struck me was "underhandedness", which brings us back to the very simple question that nobody at Cuppy's seems to want to answer, which is:

Why did Cuppy's remove Ben Doyle's photo from their website the other day?

Because of their "underhandedness"?

I written posts on here before, and a lot of what you say, I can agree with, but none of us will ever know whethere there was a fraudulent conveyance or not (unless it's determined by a court).   You would hope that the new owner's lawyer's and accountants were able to explain that to them. 

 If you read the DOJ press release, Snowden is paying the IRS what is owed to them for the time period of 1992-1997.  I don't think that it releases him from the IRS looking into other dealings past that time period, so for all we know, they might have something else going into the future. 

 You brought up another good point in your second post.  How are they able to afford daycare to employees.  I'm an accountant and I look at the numbers, and it's amazing to me that you have 100 employees, yet the largest monthly royalty you can get from a Cuppy's is $250.  I'm guessing one of the other entities within that office must do some business to cover the costs. 

"Cuppy's must have paid a sufficient amount, whether in whole or in the form of a promissory note, to satisfy the IRS that they are different companies." - Guest

I don't think this was a critical argument of this thread but your argument sounds reasonable. It is not our desire to ruin the reputation of a good company. Point taken. Does anyone know what it takes to satisfy the IRS that companies are seperate? $1 purchase, $100, market value of depreciated assets?

However, here is the big gorilla in the Cuppy's room that is being skirted around. Cuppy's officially denied any franchise related affiliations (see below).

"NONE OF OUR AFFILIATES HAVE OFFERED FRANCHISES... WE HAVE NEVER OFFERED FRANCHISES IN ANY OTHER LINE OF BUSINESS." - Cuppy's UFOC, Item 1, Predecessors and Affiliates

Now we find out in this community from Cuppy's own official statement here that it "purchased the assets of Java Jo’z Coffee & More" via Medina.  All such affiliation are legally to be disclosed in the UFOC to franchise buyers for some of the reasons that a buyer might have that have been expressed in this forum.

Some have implied that Java Jo'z were only licensees, but as has been pointed out by Sean Kelly and others, licensee is to franchising what an agreement is to a contract. A franchisee is a licensee. And $25,000 fee, branding, and business control makes a licensee a franchisee.

The little chimp in the room? Poorly managing information by Cuppy's management. Cuppy's bought into Java and its wayward CEO. The market is suspicious because of the Snowden incident. So what does Cuppy's do?  It makes things disappear without an explanation. It issues statements that bring up more questions. In a bad situation where honesty is at question, Cuppy's most definitely appears less than forthcoming to many of us.

"We welcome your comments and concerns...call Doug Hibbing, the President of Cuppy's Coffee & More, at 1-888-241-4324

That is one of the most constructive things heard from Cuppy's yet. How about setting up an email directly to the president for people that might be intimidated calling him?

Cuppy's says NO how could they.  Let's let you decide - Java Jo'z and Cuppy's both have the same address in Fort Walton Beach, Florida, the logo Cuppy's sports is is the same logo  Java Jo'z was using, the principals involved are basically the same, except for Roy Snowden who at this time is waiting for sentencing for tax problems from his Java Jo'z days, which prompted the name change along with infringement problems with Mountine Mud who claimed to own the Jav Jo'z name and last but not least Cuppy's buildings are identical in apperence to Java Jo'z except for the name that is on the drive thru coffee shop.  Listen people I lost 30,000 to these crooks because they want to hide behind tax problems and attorney's so I have come to the conclusion that I will never see my money again, but if can help stop others from losing their cash then I will get my 30,000 back from them one way or another. YOU CAN PUT LIPSTICK ON A PIG BUT IT'S STILL A PIG!

Warren R. Moore
Jacksonville, Florida

I just wanted to add something to this. Not only is Roy P. Snowden and his wife crooks…But they are monsters. Roy and Kim ran a Door to Door traveling sales crew where he worked us kids like dogs and Kept most of our money.We were far from home and were madde to work 12-123 hour days.Ironicly they let me go for not being honest and left me at a bus station in St. PAul w/ no money and no ticket.I was 19 at the time and scared. Roy had boats we had hole sin our shoes. Someone should take this evil man off the streets for ever.
Thanks
Trisha A.Paliotti

So Cuppy's says they "aren't related to Java Jo'z".  Wow their logos sure do look similar to me.  I think some coffee business in Fort Walton Beach isn't telling the truth..how about you?

Richard, thanks for the good laugh!  Will you be attending Roy Snowden's sentencing on January 23rd?

By the way, if you were a BILLIONAIRE, that might warrant the title before the name, but if being a simple millionaire means that much to you, great.

I think there are probably more millionaires posting in this forum than you realize.  You seem to be really proud to use that title though. You just recently make your first million?

BILLIONAIRE MINDSET, Richard....think big man!!

Great sleuthing! Cuppy's writes on their UFOC something quite different than their own website; namely:

NONE OF OUR AFFILIATES HAVE OFFERED FRANCHISES FOR THE SAME TYPE OF BUSINESS AS THAT TO BE OPERATED BY THE FRANCHISEE OR FRANCHISES FOR ANOTHER LINE OF BUSINESS... WE HAVE NEVER OFFERED FRANCHISES IN ANY OTHER LINE OF BUSINESS.

And yet on their website they say they used to be franchisor Java Jo'z. In case they pull their web page, this is what the page says:

Since 1999, Cuppy's Coffee & More (formerly Java Jo'z) has been serving great tasting, hand-crafted specialty coffee beverages to thousands of people across the country.

Sure wish the FTC and the states who require franchise registration would monitor the truthfulness of those UFOCs out there instead of just requiring that there only be a piece of paper to file.

Frankman