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Log In / Register | Mar 18, 2010

Judge Dismisses Federal Lawsuit against Quiznos

Federal Judge Rules That Quiznos Franchisees "Are Bound by the Terms of the Franchise Agreements They Signed."

MILWAUKEE (Blue MauMau) – Federal Judge William Griesbach of the U.S. Eastern District Court of Wisconsin announced today the dismissal of a banner lawsuit against Quiznos. Twelve franchisees, represented by attorney Justin M. Klein of Marks & Klein, allege that Quizno’s Franchise Company, LLC defrauded them. The sandwich shop owners accuse Quiznos of gouging franchisees to require them to purchase food, supplies and services at exorbitant prices from approved vendors, who in turn provide hidden kick-backs to Quiznos. It is alleged that the company then set artificially low retail prices that dug into store profitability.

Allegations of the franchisor having exorbitant mark-ups and kick-backs were ruled as vague. There was another more critical issue. Whether such price gouging exists or not, the judge specifically cited that the Uniform Franchise Offering Circular (UFOC) in which all franchise owners must sign was quite clear. The franchisor could charge mark-ups and kick-backs without restriction; specifically:

ITEM 8 of UFOC: We (Quiznos) and our affiliates have the right to receive payments from suppliers on account of their dealings with you and other Franchisees and to use the amounts we receive without restriction for any purpose we or our affiliates deem appropriate...

The claims of the franchise owners were undone by the franchise agreements that each signed (see attached memorandum and order, pdf - 28 pgs). Summarizes the judge, “Having chosen to become Quiznos franchisees, plaintiffs are bound by the terms of the franchise agreements they signed. If Quiznos has breached its agreement with them by charging them exorbitant prices for the goods and services needed to operate their franchises, their remedy lies in contract, not under the antitrust laws."

Federal racketeering, Sherman anti-trust and fraud charges were all dismissed. In regards to these charges, the court observed, “claims of fraud on which plaintiffs’ civil RICO claims rest are fatally undermined by the exhaustive disclosures and specific disclaimers and non-reliance clauses set forth in the franchise agreements they signed. I also conclude that the complaint fails to state a claim under the Sherman Act and its Wisconsin equivalent."

Franchise owners claimed that area developers gave them false expectations of what their store would earn when they were investigating to buy a franchise. The court dismissed the allegation saying that such false earnings claims were not relevent because the UFOC expressly stated this warning in all capitals and bold letters (see below):

"OTHER THAN THE ABOVE INFORMATION, WE DO NOT FURNISH OR AUTHORIZE OUR SALESPERSONS TO FURNISH ANY ORAL OR WRITTEN INFORMATION CONCERNING THE ACTUAL OR POTENTIAL SALES, INCOME OR PROFITS OF A QUIZNO’S RESTAURANT."

The court also ruled that the jurisdiction of the lawsuit was not entirely appropriate. State claims should be tried at the state level, not in federal court. Comments the judge, "With plaintiffs’ federal claims gone, I then dismiss the remaining state law claims without prejudice to allow plaintiffs to pursue them in state court under whose law they arise.”

With the franchisee lawsuit having failed, Richard Emmett, Executive Vice President and Chief Legal Officer for Quiznos, spoke with Blue MauMau about how the ruling could help the network focus on important issues.

“Now hopefully this distraction is behind us. We do not want to spend our time in court", says Mr. Emmett. "We want to spend our time improving the system and franchisee profitability. So we are pleased with the decision, not only because we think the decision is right but also because it will allow us to direct more resources to the benefit of our franchisees.”

Franchisee attorney Justin Klein is currently evaluating whether to file the suit in state court and / or appeal in federal court.

--

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Why Brennanman Isn't a Q Franchisee by Guest
Wonder why none of Quiznos' officers own a franchisee or even talk about buying one? Read the lawsuit. As a franchisee I will tell you that every bit of what is in the lawsuit is true. What that means for you, perspective franchisees, is that if you sign on the dotted line that is what you'll live with everyday and according to a judge it's all legal.
Contract trumps rhetoric by Guest
It is interesting that the terms and condistions of the franchise agreement are being upheld as the final authority on the subject. If this holds true in other cases the legal battles for Quiznos will soon come to an end. There are many owners of Quiznos Sub shops in business today that would like to spend their time and energy making their investments successful, instead of focusing on the lawsuits. This may portend the beginning of the resurgence of the brand. If they are able to energize their marketing and product offerings in a way that is attractive to consumers, they already have over 5,000 locations open with which to compete.
The Wisconsin Quiznos ruling by Jim Herst
Jim Herst's picture

--

Although the court has ruled, the court does not enforce.  Quiznos Zees in debt might examine alternatives to full payment.  Without fee and if desired, even anonymously presented, I will be happy to review and suggest alternatives.  Start by looking at our website:performancesourceinc.com.

--

Jim Herst is president of Performance Source Inc., a nationwide strategist organization serving business managers with credit restoration and payment systems in addition to designing cash flow processes. More information is available on si

NRN Misreports This Franchise News by Craig Hsueh
Craig Hsueh's picture

Nation's Restaurant News really misunderstood this case. It normally has such a high level of reporting. But look below on how it describes why the Quiznos franchisee case in Wisconsin failed.

"In a 28-page ruling made public Tuesday, U.S. District Judge William Griesbach dismissed the suit saying the plaintiffs failed to prove their claims that Quiznos forced them to buy supplies at higher prices, with the allegedly inflated profits channeled back from approved vendors to headquarters in the form of “kickbacks.” - NRN, Federal Judge Dismisses One Quiznos Franchisee Suit

That is not right.

Judge Griesbach never came to a conclusion on whether Quiznos engaged in price gouging. His point was that even if the franchisees were correct in that the franchisor charged exhorbitant prices to its franchise owners, so what? The franchise owners signed agreements that gave the right for Quiznos to force them to buy at high prices. And signed agreements are binding.

That is the point.

Disappointing coverage by NRN. Inaccurate. Too simple. How come the trade journals have such a hard time accurately reporting on franchise news?

Craig
Quiznos Still Sucks by Guest
No matter how this lawsuit plays out Quiznos still sucks. As a current franchisee I can vouch for everything "alledged" in the lawsuit. I didn't have this kind of information when I bought mine and I can say with 100% conviction that I NEVER would've bought a Quiznos, new, used, or otherwise if I knew even 10% of what I know now. Anyone who buys into Quiznos is buying into a system that will legally steal every bit of your wealth. High food prices, high paper prices, vendor kickbacks, and outrageous equipment prices and kickbacks. There is no food or advertising co-op; and no transparency when franchisees try to determine just how their money is being spent. The revenue stream isn't even Quiznos', they sold it to an investment group as a return on their stake in the company. That means Q makes its money selling franchises, food, and equipment. That's why the prices on all we have to buy is so outrageous, why we giveaway small subs for anyone who buys a drink and chip, why Quiznos the vast majority of owners are in their store - working - 7 days a week, and why Q's are opened within a mile of each other. There are two ways of making money as a franchisor. Give the franchisee a good deal, allow him to become rich and you as the franchisee will get rich. The Ray Kroc way. Or you can screw your franchisees, steal everything you legally or semi-legally from them, and churn, churn, churn to keep new idiots in the pipeline. That's the Rick Schaden way, the Quiznos way. And it's still done today.
It's Quiznos Time by Guest
This ruling means no food co-op, no advertising co-op, and no transparency. It's business as usual. CEO Greg Brennanman didn't waste any time letting franchisees know about THIS ruling in his weekly voicemail and the implications made in it were clear. It's Quiznos time and that means more giveaways and more ways to vaccuum up every last nickle and dime they can from franchisees. It means higher food costs. Q food costs were at 30% before the recent price increases. That's Q's own numbers. For example, roast beef is up 40 cents a pound and swiss cheese is up $1 a pound. Despite food price hikes and giveaway coupons that are being circulated once again Q is telling franchisees that food costs are still 30% and NOT to raise prices. Cut portions? Uh, no, can't do that either. Franchisees can ignore Q's price recommendations but because Quiznos are stacked on top of each other in most major markets raising prices individually is NOT a good option. Rising labor, taxes, and other costs are also squeezing franchisees. How much do you think is left at the end of the month? And the threats. The Q s will take your store away if you don't follow the "Q" way. Take it. What will you do with it? You won't try to run it. Quiznos doesn't own and run a significant number of corporate stores for a reason. Q aint McDonald's. Don't believe me future suckers? Spend the $300,000 to open a store. Or get a "great deal" buying a store that is being given away. Join the idiots like me that dumped their life savings into this black hole.
Brenneman is on Fox Business with Cavuto Now EST by Truth in Franchising

Sounds like a reasonable guy... 

The Truth Shall Set You Free!

TIF

The Truth Shall Set You Free!

TIF

Item 8 Disclosure by michael webster
michael webster's picture

I didn't read the memorandums, but the Judge's reasoning on item 8 makes no business sense.

How much money did Quizno's as a whole make on vendor rebates versus gross sale royalties?

Inquiring minds want to know, need to know, and have the right to the information.

If Quizno's is making 90% of their profit on vendor rebates, that is quite a different thing from making only 5%.  But the item 8 "disclosure" was consistent with either scenario.

If we are going to be serious about disclosure, why cannot we have better Judges who understand what is material to a business decision? 

Michael Webster PhD LLB

Franchise News


Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"


Contract was not freely bargained -----Quiznos--Deck Stacked by Guest
Quiznos franchisees, like all franchisees, did not understand that the unilateral and unbargained contract could, in fact, be bargained before they signed it, according to the attorneys on Blue Mau Mau. Is this true? Would franchise paper with varying contract terms be as attractive to equity investors, or as suitable for IPO's? Quiznos franchisees, like most prospective franchisees believe that the contract is uniform and standard and that all franchisees stand in the same legal relationship with the franchisor. Prospective franchisees believe that the government UFOC that protects them? and that underlies the contract cannot be bargained, and if they want to make money and profits, as indicated and promised before the contract is signed, the contract terms are NOT negotiable and are part of the package. The visibility of the franchisor's network convinces them that all of these successful franchisees signed the same contract and that it is just a technicality. Prospective franchisees believe falsely that the franchisor cannot make money unless they make money. They don't understand that the franchisor makes money on the gross sales whether or not the franchisee is operating at breakeven, a profit, or a loss. The franchise agreements are airtight and provide complete protection for Quiznos who OWNS NO physical network and whose worth is only maintained because of their portfolio of binding franchise agreements that are upheld by the courts and that can be sold to private equity investors or used for IPO's of the brand to the public. The deck is stacked because the courts strictly enforce the terms of the contract. The UFOC together with the signed Franchise Agreement protects the franchisor 100% from charges of misrepresentation and fraudulent inducement to contract. This is the intent of regulatory policy and why Quiznos franchisees lost in the court.
Excellent Point by michael webster
michael webster's picture

Craig, you have made an excellent point.  What has happened here is the the reporter did not understand the Judge's ruling in the context of a summary judgment - confusing legal impossibility with factual impossibility.

Reporters would do better to ask about the significance of legal conclusions rather than simply assuming that they understand. 

Michael Webster PhD LLB

Franchise News


Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"


Quiznos has License to Steal from franchisees by Guest
This comment has been moved here.
Fox is a Republican franchised network? by Guest
Where else would Brennerman appear? ---but Fox! Isn't their owner buying the Wall Street Journal? It would be something if the "No Spin Zone" network would become the "no Sin Zone" network, but we know better, don't we? TIF. Maybe "culture warriors" should become "vulture warriors" who would fight to tame the the spokesmen and women who fight for unbridled capitalism and its immorality while pretending to be very concerned about the declining culture of our nation and our declining closeness to God.
The Judge Handled It Correctly by RichardSolomon
RichardSolomon's picture

The judge handled the issue exactly as he was required to handle it by statute, regulation and precedential other judicial decisions, as he cited them.

Amount of "extraneous" revenue derived from franchisee purchases has never been a disclosure requirement in any state or in the FTC Rule. Neither has its percentage of anything been a required disclosure.

How much the franchisor makes is beside the point in Due Diligence work anyway. The reason for that is that whatever the numbers might be at the time of disclosure, they can change. The contract does not freeze revenue relationships as of the date of  execution. The issue in Due Diligence is that the franchisees are required to purchase only through the franchisor prescribed channel, and that channel is controlled by the franchisor and not by the franchisee association. That means there is no purchasing power to benefit the franchisees, and that all purchasing power benefits only the franchisor.

In Due Diligence, whenever you see what Quiznos does, you have to assume that abuse permitted will be abuse committed. When the issue is whether they stick it to you, how much they stick it to you doesn't count. All the minutiae some folks think they ought to know represents only make work in a real due diligence exercise. You look at the phenomenon, not at the nuances of the phenomenon. The only person you can trust to stick a knife into you is a surgeon.

Richard Solomon, www.FranchiseRemedies.com,  has 44 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School


Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School
Franchisees, Want Change? by Bob Frankman
Bob Frankman's picture

Then Change The Terms of the Contract 

"If Quiznos has breached its agreement with them by charging them exorbitant prices for the goods and services needed to operate their franchises, their remedy lies in contract, not under the antitrust laws." - Judge William Griesbach, US District Court, East Wisconsin 

An interesting ruling in which the judge reminds all of us that the contract we sign is king.

The judge seems to almost beg the Quiznos franchisees - look, if you want to remedy this, don't come seeking the law for fair play and justice. You are bound in commercial law by the contract you sign - as far as it doesn't break the laws of the land. If YOU FRANCHISEES want to implement change for the better, your remedy lies in changing the terms of your contract. Get some collective power and make the contract work for you for a change.

Hmmmm... I've just been slapped in the face with cold hard reality. Note to myself. I need to get active in supporting an independent franchisee association that can collectively press for change because the interests of my franchisor and my interests seem to have built-in conflicts. And I want my interests to win in such conflicts.

Item 8 Disclosure by michael webster
michael webster's picture

Richard wrote: "How much the franchisor makes is beside the point in Due Diligence work anyway."

I disagree.  If I know that the substantive part of the franchisor's revenue is from rebates, rather than royalties.  I  would be very concerned.

Richard wrote: "Amount of "extraneous" revenue derived from franchisee purchases has never been a disclosure requirement in any state or in the FTC Rule. Neither has its percentage of anything been a required disclosure."

I disagree.  The audited financials show the different revenue streams, and do so clearly, according to GAAP.   The item 8 disclosure has to be meaningful and not something that you have to disclose.

Richard wrote: "In Due Diligence, whenever you see what Quiznos does, you have to assume that abuse permitted will be abuse committed."

I disagree.  You would never buy a franchise, then.  Franchise agreements are largely discretionary with respect to what the franchisor can do.  Imaging worst case scenarios without looking for real evidence is silly.

Richard wrote: "All the minutiae some folks think they ought to know represents only make work in a real due diligence exercise."

I disagree.  Real work involves reviewing, checking, and verifying details.  Any one can come up with skeptical reasons not to do a deal.  

Finally, Richard wrote: "The issue in Due Diligence is that the franchisees are required to purchase only through the franchisor prescribed channel, and that channel is controlled by the franchisor and not by the franchisee association. That means there is no purchasing power to benefit the franchisees, and that all purchasing power benefits only the franchisor."

I disagree.  The item 8 disclosure doesn't tell  you how much the purchasing power benefits the franchisees or not.  Franchisors who use the the purchasing power to benefit the franchise network should disclose this to differeniate themselves from those franchisors who use the rebates to line their own pockets.

Due diligence is not just an exercise in saying no; real due diligence is an exercise in coming up with reasons for your decision to say yes.  Anyone can say no; nobody needs to pay an attorney even an American nickel if they think that they are going to turn down the deal. 

Michael Webster PhD LLB

Franchise News


Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"


Francisee Associations by michael webster
michael webster's picture

Bob wrote: "Hmmmm... I've just been slapped in the face with cold hard reality. Note to myself. I need to get active in supporting an independent franchisee association that can collectively press for change because the interests of my franchisor and my interests seem to have built-in conflicts. And I want my interests to win in such conflicts."

And also join a trade association comprised of independent franchisee associations dedicated to empowering collective action.  I wonder if such a trade organization exists.

Michael Webster PhD LLB

Franchise News


Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"


Real Due Diligence Is The Process Behind a Yes by Bob Frankman
Bob Frankman's picture

"Due diligence is not just an exercise in saying no; real due diligence is an exercise in coming up with reasons for your decision to say yes." - Michael Webster

Well said. And worth repeating.

Commercial versus Antitrust Law by RichardSolomon
RichardSolomon's picture

Tough contracts do not violate the antitrust laws. That's all the judge said. With that ruling, the case goes back to state court absent diversity jurisdiction.

It has nothing to do with fair play and justice. It has to do only with the law of contracts.

Among the many subtleties missed in this and other cases is the issue of how to deal with incomplete contracts within otherwise complete contracts. Franchise contracts are different from normal contracts in that many things are left open as to detail. They are referred to mechanical substitutes for definiteness, like the operations manual that be amended unilaterally by the franchisor.

A franchise contract can be a complete contract with such open and indefinite items.

On the other hand, within the franchise contract is an agreement for the purchase and sale of goods with open price terms. Damn few lawyers ever have a clue as to the possibilities in this scenario. Hell, they don't even know to go look to the state law Uniform Commercial Code sections that deal with sale of goods with open price term clauses - you buy as we instruct at whatever the price may then be.

When your lawyer lacks an appreciation of how to use statutory schemes in tandem to make up for gaps in either of them, you the client take it in the neck.

Richard Solomon, www.FranchiseRemedies.com,  has 44 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School


Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School
UCC and Open Price Clause by michael webster
michael webster's picture

Here is the link to relevant Colorado State Law. 

Copied below:

"

4-2-305. Open price term. Statute text

(1) The parties if they so intend can conclude a contract for sale even though the price is not settled. In such a case the price is a reasonable price at the time for delivery if:

(a) Nothing is said as to price; or

(b) The price is left to be agreed by the parties and they fail to agree; or

(c) The price is to be fixed in terms of some agreed market or other standard as set or recorded by a third person or agency and it is not so set or recorded.

(2) A price to be fixed by the seller or by the buyer means a price for him to fix in good faith.

(3) When a price left to be fixed otherwise than by agreement of the parties fails to be fixed through fault of one party, the other may at his option treat the contract as cancelled or himself fix a reasonable price.

(4) Where, however, the parties intend not to be bound unless the price be fixed or agreed and it is not fixed or agreed, there is no contract. In such a case, the buyer must return any goods already received or if unable so to do must pay their reasonable value at the time of delivery and the seller must return any portion of the price paid on account."

Please explain how you think this Act would have helped the Quiznos action. 

Michael Webster PhD LLB

Franchise News


Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"


Open Price Issues by RichardSolomon
RichardSolomon's picture

It is premature for that to come into play. The judge didn't rule on contract issues, but left them for the state court judge to handle.

Now that we have brought this point to light, hopefully their lawyers will figure out what advantage the UCC provides that the franchise law does not.

Why franchisees in bound purchasing cases haven't used this is beyond me. It is never a tie-in antitrust violation. I'm very surprised that Plaintiffs' lawyers tried to use the antitrust claim about that in this case. That tells me something about the quality of representation the Plainfittfs are getting.

There is little case law precedent about it - and for bloody good reason. Whenever I use it, the case seems to get settled. Of course you have to know how to use it. 

These same lawyers represent the Dunkin Doughnuts Indian/Pakistani franchisees in the case where the claim is that DD is trying to purge brown skinned franchisees pursuant to some conspiracy to enhance the perceived capital value of DD in anticipation of an IPO. When I was interviewed by a newspaper about that case I expressed skepticism, as I did here on BMM. I didn't then appreciate the ability of franchisee counsel as I think I do now. I told the interviewer that if it were a sexual harrasment claim it would be impossible not to give it credence. However, a conspiracy to purge brown skinned franchisees to enhance an IPO will require an extremely high showing of very hard evidence for anyone to believe it. Absent a Wansee Conference style memorandum, I would rather represent DD on this one. 

Richard Solomon, www.FranchiseRemedies.com,  has 44 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School


Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School
Cryptic by michael webster
michael webster's picture

Richard wrote: "

It is premature for that to come into play. The judge didn't rule on contract issues, but left them for the state court judge to handle.

Now that we have brought this point to light, hopefully their lawyers will figure out what advantage the UCC provides that the franchise law does not."

Alright, I admit I am dense.  What advantage do you see in the UCC that is not present in the franchise? 

I don't see one.

Michael Webster PhD LLB

Franchise News


Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"


That's just it - You don't see it by RichardSolomon
RichardSolomon's picture

Just about nobody sees what's there right in front of you. Think guerrilla tactics and call me back in the morning. Some things just don't come out of law books and reading treatises and the opinions of courts.

I may bean asshole, but I'm a bloody good asshole.

Richard Solomon, www.FranchiseRemedies.com,  has 44 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School


Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School
Actually ... by michael webster
michael webster's picture

Actually, I was giving you a chance to demonstrate that you are not an asshole, bloody or otherwise.

I have a very good idea about what I would do - but that is not relevant.  

You declared that you had a solution which involved the UCC, and now you want to play peek-a-boo.

If you think that you are giving out a trade secret, then don't say anything in the first place.

But if you want to help some franchisees, who aren't going to be your clients anyways, then spell out your solution. You cannot just granstand and call the other lawyers idiots.

Michael Webster PhD LLB

Franchise News


Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"


Volunteers for Richard? by Bob Frankman
Bob Frankman's picture

It is not a good sign when you have a bloody hole. Richard needs a colonoscopy.

I suspect that he's offended more than a few people in his career who might love to help out.

Is this by Bubba Sparky
one of those situations where you all agree to disagree, retreat to your respective corners and curse each other in silence?  Or can we hope to see actual fisticuffs occur at some point.  I mean, with SpudsToGo no longer here for entertainment purposes, we've got to have some sort of ridiculous antagonist banter or else how the hell is BMM supposed to attract readers?
I can do what I like - and I don't give out the good stuff by RichardSolomon
RichardSolomon's picture

I have no altruistic interests other than to get the Due Diligence gospel out there. Once that rant is done, everything else if not open for anyone to expect gratis.

Even if I told you what, that wouldn't tell you how.

I can gerandstand and call out anyone I choose. Seems like most every time  my take on 'em is correct. 

Richard Solomon, www.FranchiseRemedies.com,  has 44 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School


Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School
My Colon by RichardSolomon
RichardSolomon's picture

My colon is a colon that has seen Homeric action in the service of my "inclinations". It has weathered every storm. It is in perfect shape. It has its own autobiography, which you can read by clicking on the link below.

Muldoon's Colon

Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has 44 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School


Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School
Re: Actually ... by Guest
Thank you Michael Webster. Always sensible, always willing to teach
Who would pay? by michael webster
michael webster's picture

Bubba wrote: "Or can we hope to see actual fisticuffs occur at some point. "

Richard and I have an agreement to be congenial - just imagine how this might have turned out otherwise. 

Michael Webster PhD LLB

Franchise News


Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"


Legitimate question by Paul Steinberg
Paul Steinberg's picture

No, Bubba. A main purpose of this board is an exchange of knowledge. If someone wants to discuss a cause of action available to franchisees, that is welcome. If someone does not want to discuss, that is fine.

By the way, the way for the Coffee Beanery franchisees to overturn that last ruling is so obvious I am amazed that y'all are so stupid you haven't figured it out yet. And I could give you the winning strategy for MegaMillions lotto, but if you're too dumb to have figured that out, you don't deserve to win the jackpot anyway.

So Bubba, if you still want to win MegaMillions, sleep on it and FedEx me a retainer check (Certified Funds only!) and then we'll talk.


Paul Steinberg, Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400
No Pumping and Dumping Activity in the colon of Seamus Muldoon by Guest
I'm not at all surprised that the colon of Richard Solomon has survived to honor the excesses of Seamus Muldoon, himself, with bawdy stories of gastronic pleasures and joys that would kill a lesser man. Alas, Colin Bowell is no longer on the scene but the friendly proctologist is always there for us --- eager to look for the enemy within and to save the lives of those who have no idea that the enemy attacks from ambush ---and without warning. Always enjoy my visits with Seamus Muldoon and his talking body parts and am looking forward to hearing from his brain.
Rich Likes It by Bob Frankman
Bob Frankman's picture

Here's proof that it is futile to call Richard names. He likes it.

Attorney deathmatch on pay-per-view by Bubba Sparky

"No matter who wins, a lawyer dies!"

I used to live in Texas, and Texans are just as likely to slug you as to shake your hand as a greeting.  Punching you in the gut can be seen as a sign of affection, and a kick in the nuts, well, that there is an indication of something special.

That being said, methinks Solomon would like to kick you in the nuts. 

UCC Sales Act Cause of Actions by michael webster
michael webster's picture

Paul,

Here is why I am skeptical about using the Sales Act and Open Price Terms. 

In 2004, the Supreme Court of Texas ruled against some gas dealers who were trying this argument.  Here is the quote:

"In this case, we must decide whether the price fixed by a refiner for the sale of its gasoline under an open-price-term contract with its dealers was in good faith as required by section 2.305(b) of the Texas Business and Commerce Code.  The dealers claim that the refiner=s pricing practices are forcing them out of business and therefore are not in good faith.   The trial court concluded that the refiner had established its good faith as a matter of law, but the court of appeals reversed the summary judgment, concluding that circumstantial evidence raised a fact issue about the refiner=s good faith.  102 S.W.3d 205.  Although the refiner=s price was commercially reasonable when compared to the prices of other refiners in the relevant market, the court found some evidence in the record to suggest that the refiner=s price might have been influenced by improper subjective motives such as the desire to force some of its dealers out of business.  Because we conclude that the refiner established as a matter of law that its price was fixed in good faith as defined in the Code, we reverse the judgment of the court of appeals and render judgment that plaintiffs take nothing."

(There is a whole article in the summer edition of the Franchise Journal on this issue, also, which I intend to summarize.)

To be fair to Richard, he did not claim that was viable cause of action, only a some tactic based upon the Sales Act.  But I remain skeptical. 

Michael Webster PhD LLB

Franchise News


Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"


Michael is right when he calls me an a-hole by RichardSolomon
RichardSolomon's picture

Why get annoyed when someone correctly describes you. If I didn'r respect Michael I wouldn't say anything to him at all. If I had to punch out everyone I offend, my knuckles would be chafed. I only punch out those who show up and ask for it - or those who won't behave in Muldoons. You only have to take out a few rather noisily and the rest get the message.

Punching each other is the hallmark of the true Neanderthal, It's our hailing sign and recognition ritual.

Richard Solomon, www.FranchiseRemedies.com, has 44 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School


Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School
UCC Issue by RichardSolomon
RichardSolomon's picture

That Texas case has nothing to do with what I am talking about.

Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has 44 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School


Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School
What are You Talking About? by michael webster
michael webster's picture

I will bite, once again.

Richard wrote: "Even if I told you what, that wouldn't tell you how."

Then tell us what, since you won't be revealing any secrets. 

Michael Webster PhD LLB

Franchise News


Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"


That thar TEXAS case by RichardSolomon
RichardSolomon's picture

In that thar case, the court held that the price was objectively reasonable for the reason that it was a market competitive price. That has nothing to do with how to use the UCC in bound purchasing franchise disputes. If the prices in bound purchasing cases were competitive prices, there would be no dispute. The gravamen in bound purchases cases is that the prices are artificially high to an extreme degree. Look at the posts about Quiznos price comparisons against open market pricing for the same products.

Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has 44 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School


Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School
Quiznos Pricing - Not Unique Items by michael webster
michael webster's picture

The problem is for the US Quiznos people that unfortunately most of their purchases are "branded" with the Quiznos logo.  That makes comparisons legally tricky - even though everyone knows that they are paying too much.  How much is Quiznos branded turkey really worth?

In my view, the better attack is on the standards that have to lie behind the products; what are they, how are they used, and what would be acceptable substitutes.

The Texas case stated that we only need look to the market to see what reasonable prices are: well, in the Quiznos market everything appears to be overcharged, according to the franchisee complaints.  The problem is that Quiznos has set their standards so high as to only pick out unique distributors, independent of quality.

I grant you that you might be able to get Coke at competitive prices, but it is the food ingredients that are killing the Quiznos franchisees according to them.

For the reason, I don't see the Sale of Goods Act providing Quiznos franchisees with any statutory relief. 

Michael Webster PhD LLB

Franchise News


Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"


Branding makes no difference here by RichardSolomon
RichardSolomon's picture

The gas was branded also. Putting a brand on a product does not by itself differentiate the product except for consumer transactions. Franchisee purchases are not consumer transactions. They are B to B transactions.

I aint trying to muss up yo hair. You do it like you like and I'll do it like I like. 

 

Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has 44 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School


Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School

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