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Log In / Register | Mar 11, 2010

Diary of a Struggling Quiznos Store Owner

imageEditor's note: Franchise owners sometimes fear retribution from franchisors for saying things the franchisor does not want out. They use the Internet tradition (and ours) of allowing anonymous comments under news articles and forum discussion postings. This story is from an anonymous poster who calls herself Elizabeth and says she is a Quiznos store owner. She could be anyone. So, you will need to determine if her story is genuine or not. It was originally posted as a comment under a Quiznos news article. Some format changes have been made and headlines added for easier reading. We hope successful and satisfied owners will likewise post their ownership stories.

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Prospective Quiznos buyers please read this carefully. I have always prided myself in the fact that I try to make good decisions. Yet, the decision of my husband and myself to purchase a Quizno’s restaurant is one decision that has been anything but positive. Please take your time reading my story because it may help you to avoid making a terrible mistake. I am hoping that by sharing my experience the information may save your family, finances, sanity and future.

Yea! Revenues in the Top Third of the System. Profits??

We transferred our Quiznos over 23 months ago. Our weekly labor ranges between 22% to 25% - the goal is 20%. Average food costs range between 30% to 33% the goal is 30%. Not only have we not made money, but we have lost over $45,000 in the last twelve months in addition to $34,000 during the first 11 months.

Additionally, another Quiznos near my location is also showing similar dollar losses based upon information that the owner has shared. I realize that there are poor stores in the system. It is unrealistic to assume that every owner runs a great operation.

Our store has one of the highest customer approval ratings in the area. In addition, our location regularly appears on the top half of page two of the weekly blast fax. The blast fax is an intra-company sales reporting tool utilized by owners in order to compare their store statistics to a large grouping within a certain geographic region. It is of great concern that our business is making more than 2/3 of our geographic region and yet we are not even breaking even.

One wonders how the stores that are producing less volume than ours manage to survive? The fact is that most do not for long. The owners eventually become disappointed with this company and are either forced to sell or walk away because they can not find a buyer.

Despite working as an unpaid “volunteer” at our location for the past 22 months I have never sacrificed quality or service. We have never skimped on labor in order to squeeze more money out of the bottom line. Our store is meticulously clean and the employees are well trained.

Yet, despite all of our efforts, we have lost a lot of money.

Yes, we conduct local marketing weekly in addition to other strategies that the company suggests to increase revenue - but to no avail.

Some Stores Are Profitable

There are a fortunate few that are doing well, however, this is a rare exception. I too have a friend that is profitable. Her location is in a busy commercial district with plenty of daytime professional traffic in addition to evening residents as well. She is one of the fortunate stores that appear regularly on the top of the first page of the blast fax. Yet, despite the fact that her store is one of the more frequented locations, she has remarked that because her business is one of the highest grossing stores in the region, she is frankly surprised that she is not making a greater profit. She, like I, works her business diligently both in front and behind the scenes. She is also one of the fortunate few.

In our case, the fact that the company put not one - but three - new Quiznos extremely close to our existing store has been but one of several factors for our lack of profit. Even our customers remark that they are surprised that the company places stores in such close proximity. Our restaurant, once grossed between $9,000 to $11,000 average per week before we bought it. The addition of the other stores dramatically cut into our customer base. Currently, a $9,000 week is the rare exception. After paying over $320,000 for this store, we expected to at least net $70,000 per year. We would settle for breaking even at this point. We still have customers that make the extra trip to patronize our store because we offer the best service and most pleasant environment of the other Quiznos in the immediate vicinity. Yet, that is not enough to help our bottom line.

Finally, A Way Out!

We realized that we were not going to make money two months into our venture. We put our store on the market right away. Today, almost two years later, we have been forced due to financial constraints to give it away.

Another owner has offered us $90,000 and we are finally getting out. He knows that he will make a profit because at $90,000 it is a positive net sum gain for him. A store can not even be constructed for $90,000. He has said that based upon our P&L and the price that he is paying, he will probably make about $30,000 - perhaps $35,000 per year at our location. The key to profitability according to our buyer, is owning several locations that can be purchased for very little and planning to make about $30 - $50K per location based upon the traffic flow of each individual store. The key is to pay as low as possible for a store in order to squeeze out a small profit from each location.

Why Do Quiznos Stores Fail So Frequently?

One might ask why do so many franchisees fail to make a profit and so few do?

The answers are:

  1. The profitable stores are located in areas with significant traffic flow to offset the high costs associated with operating one of these stores.
  2. Non profitable stores (poor operations excluded) have been canabalized by our very own franchisor. It is apparent that none of the company’s decision makers understand the franchisor’s own required reading of “Behind the Golden Arches, The Ray Croc Story”. If they understood the symbiotic relationship that exists between corporate and its franchisees, then they would realize that the franchisee is the life blood of the company and it is not in anyone’s best interest to undermine the very people that make the system operate.
  3. A store’s location is not sufficient to produce the high traffic necessary to cover its numerous expenses.
  4. In regard to expenses, the franchisor has a monopoly upon most services, food and equipment necessary for us to operate. There are simply too many hands in the till for profit to filter down to the bottom line - the franchisee. There is something very wrong when a person can go to their local Restaurant Depot and find the same exact product made by the same manufacturer, same weight and ingredients but pay half the price of the same item sold by our required distributor. Many of my fellow owners have found this to be true regarding food and equipment time and time again. Other franchises that have a “franchisee consortium” responsible for monitoring and regulating costs of the goods and services utilized by franchisees have not only a higher satisfaction rate but are profitable as well. - (Source QSR magazine.) Of course there are always problems even in the best of systems, yet the bottom line is profitability. No one buys a business because they “like” the product. Investors purchase businesses in order to make money. In addition, there is no transparency within the company despite the fact that our franchisee’s pay extremely high royalties. Where there are royalties there should be total transparency. These restaurants are a long shot in the very best case. Yes, there are those who will sing the praises of the franchisor, but the extreme and vast majority will say that it is simply not worth the time or investment.
  5. The existing business model is fatally flawed and operates for the sole purpose of making money for corporate as well as their investors.
  6. Many of us have paid too much for our stores.
  7. The costs keep creeping back up from the reductions announced by last year’s new administration while the suggested retail prices have either fallen or remained the same.

Our broker has decided not to sell any future Quiznos until the company changes its entire business model. Ours will be the last that he will handle until the tide truly turns.

It has been predicted by the new administration that the future for Quiznos is “bright” and that eventually there will be more “positive” stories rather than negative ones such as ours. It is a known fact that there are at least 450 Quiznos for sale on a well known web based real estate site versus only 24 Subways.

Why do you think that is the case?

Stories just like ours have played out and are occurring every day.

Of course, Subway has its share of difficulties as well, but one thing is undeniable, a Subway does not stay on the market very long before it sells, whereas it is almost impossible to sell a Quiznos - let alone give them away as lease assumption only. Someone must be making something worthwhile at our competitor’s stores otherwise they would not be in such high demand. It is widely viewed that the “happy” owners of the future will be the ones that are either the second or third generation franchisees. When those of us who have over paid and are not able to financially continue on at our Quizno’s “volunteer” jobs have either had enough and sold for pennies on the dollar or “gone dark” the next generation - the future “happy” ones - will take over what we have built with our blood, sweat, tears and cold hard cash.

So yes, the company is accurate on one point: There will eventually be many more positive stories about which the company will boast. Those stories will come from the new owners who have purchased the deal of a lifetime and will ultimately profit from our failed investments. At the price that most of us are either walking away from or giving them away for in order to extricate ourselves from this financial nightmare called Quiznos, the next owners will actually be able to make a living from one of these stores. It is called “churning” and I firmly believe that this is an integral strategy to the corporation’s plan to make their restaurants a worthwhile investment in the future. It is simply a matter of time before we all cry “uncle” and corporate knows it.

And yes, then the next generation will truly be “happy”.

Please think carefully before you invest in ANY business. Perform due diligence, talk to other owners, read comments posted on the Internet, read trade magazines - anything that will help you to make an informed and objective decision. I only wish that we had known about this web site as well as the many others that I have since found in our familie’s nightmare odyssey. Perhaps things would be different and life would actually be “normal”.

This was a very costly lesson. Our lives, my children's sense of security and future has been devastated by this experience. We are struggling just to survive at this point.

I hope that you can learn from our mistake.

Elizabeth

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Diary of a Quiznos Owner by Guest

Several years ago, I opened my own restaurant - not a franchise. It failed after only 11 months. I lost my entire life savings, my home and my marriage. I even lost my pots and pans from home that I'd brought to the restaurant. The restaurant was seized by the county tax authorities. I lost everything, and I can empathize with others who have found themselves in the same position. Elizabeth says she had to "give it away" for $90,000. Poor thing. I WISH I'd had that opportunity. And, based on what I read on here, I WISH I'd had a franchisor to blame. Come on. There is no silver bullet - not even being a franchise. Businesses fail. All over the world, businesses fail. Especially in this economy. If I'd had a proven system by which to develop and operate my restaurant, an established supply chain, slick marketing materials and a recognizable brand, perhaps my restaurant would have succeeded. Perhaps not. A franchise gives you a head start, a step up, and it appears from reading these posts, a target to shoot at when it falls apart. What it doesn't give you is a guarantee. Nothing can or should replace due diligence, hard work, acceptance of responsibility, and knowing that, in life, not everything works out. It's not a fun thing to go through - in fact, it's pretty horrible. But you learn, you rebuild, you take responsibility for your own decisions, and you move on. Elizabeth, I'm jealous of your ability to sell your failed business, and I'm jealous of your having someone to blame and to take your anger out on. Good luck to you and everyone else in the same situation. Things usually work out if you don't give up, and there is life on the other side. Don't lose the opportunity to learn the important lessons from your ordeal - and how your franchisor sucked is probably not the most important lesson to learn.

Having read Diary of a by pshoom
pshoom's picture

Having read Diary of a Struggling Quiznos Owner, I was curious to understand just how prevalent this situation has become.

While I sympathize with you and understand the situation, it is often difficult to discern anecdotal information (which is what this story is) with what is happening throughout a large franchise network. And if you want to enact change, it is necessary to provide more substantial information that supports these individual stories.

So out of curiosity, I searched our survey respondent database to determine if our survey results correspond with this story. Interestingly, I found that not one single Quiznos franchisee has participated in our National Franchisee Survey. And without participation, we are unable to validate the information presented in this posting.

So while I would have liked to provide some network wide information that may have supported or disproved the situation described, I have found this to be impossible.

Perhaps, over time, we will receive a sufficient number of responses that will allow us to disseminate some information that either supports or disproves this situation as described.

Perry Shoom, FranchiseFacts
Capturing the franchise experience!
Franchisee Survey in progress at www.FranchiseFactsUSA.com.
If you are a franchise owner or store manager, please participate!
Many reasons by Ray Borradale
Ray Borradale's picture

There are many reasons why franchisees don't participate in surveys.  In bad systems, the most common is that the franchisor prefers not to invite them to participate because the result won't enhance the opportunity to sell franchises. For many others they look to the results of such surveys and see that the vast majority target benefits for the franchisor where only in good systems do we see a flow on effect where the value of the franchisee's investment may be enhanced.

I'm all for accurate franchising data when we know who pays for it, what the parameters are and what processes are to be employed.  How often do franchisees instigate a formal survey? Perhaps they should!!!

Don't simply look to the anicdotal at Q.  Look to the evaporating store numbers and look to the litigation.  How about a free full blown Q Franchisee Network survey indepndent of the franchisor?  I'm sure Q would be appreciative of the guidence it would provide.

The more things change; the more they stay the same.

Quiznos Marketing Closed Stores? by Guest

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Click here to Register today and get ready to be in business for yourself.

ATTEND AN OPEN HOUSE FEB. 16th, 18th, or 23rd

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OWNING YOUR OWN NATIONAL BRAND

Come to National Open House in your area, and you’ll learn:

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Quiznos® has a limited inventory of stores available through this program, and the Quiznos National Open House runs Feb. 16, 18, and 23 only… so don’t delay. Quiznos®

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what state are you guys by Thammond

what state are you guys from??

Quiznos by Bernard

I am thinking about buying an existing Quiznos franchise.

It says it makes about $ 27,000.00 monthly sales.

With what everyone is saying: is it possible to make a profit with this sales volume?

Does anyone have a neutral Profit & Loss statement to share for their existing / former Quiznos?

Thank you,
Bernard

Buying a Quiznos by Guest

Bernard, run don't walk away from this deal! At $27,000/month you wont even break even! Trust me, we have owned one for a little less than 2 years and have lost a ton of money. The only one making anything is corporate. The food costs are so high and they make you set your prices so low, that there is nothing left for you at the end of the day. We have not had ANY PAY from this business in 6 months. Thank god I have another full time job that actually pays our personal bills. We will probably go bankrupt on the business and ruin our once perfect credit.

really? by Guest

I can't believe anyone who reads this site (or does a minimal amount of homework) would consider purchasing a Quiznos.

Benard...I've been a Quiznos by Guest

Benard...I've been a Quiznos Franchise Owner for over 8 years now and can confirm in 100% agreement that Elizabeth's story is NOT unique. If you're unemployed looking to buy a job you would be better off in the short and long term to get a job flipping burgers in a McDonalds or even working behind the line at a Quiznos than owning one of these Nightmares. I'm a top ranked store in an awesome location and can't even scrape up a livable wage. Please, PLEASE for the sake of your family, your marriage, your house, your children's college education, PLEASE don't get involved with this franchise and the people who run it - Rick Schaden. I've helped 39 franchise owners close there stores in the past 3 years and I simply don't want to help you do the same as well.

Bernard, it isn't difficult by Ray Borradale
Ray Borradale's picture

to direct you to your own answers regarding Quiznos.  I'm more interested in how much difficulty you will have differentiating good from bad when it comes to your second choice franchise.

The problem you have is understanding all that you risk when you sign a contract without extensive due diligence and in your case, as with most, getting assistance from someone who understands the totality of that risk. 

No one has to spend money to find out Q would be your worst nightmare. You need to start considering the cost of due diligence as insurance and a set up cost.  Or you could practice living on the street without your family, access to money and health care for say ... 3 months. Seriously; try it - its a freakin ball.

Be careful ... be smart ... and be very affraid.

The more things change; the more they stay the same.

My gosh i feel for all of the by Guest

My gosh i feel for all of the quiznoes business owners that have lost a fortune on their investment. I am actively pursuing buying a existing quiznoes franchise for $50,000. $12,500 down and $37,500 financed at a 12% interest rate which really is pennies on the dollar compared to what some of you have paid. Given the huge discount would any of you guys unbiasly buy into the franchise? Another question I have is im trying to calculate financial projections would any of you know approx what your expenses consisted of...and would you be willing to share some of that information with me? Thanks

Buy A Quiznos Are you crazy by Guest

You have heard the saying "you get what you pay for". Take that one step further with Quiznos. If they paid you to re-open a closed Quiznos, you would still be heading down the wrong road. The business model does not work and Rick Schaden treats his franchise owners like crap.

Google 123 Fit, Schadens fitness franchise. Look what he did to the owners of this franchise. He did it in a matter of a few years.

Call any number of Quiznos owners and you won't find one who would tell you to buy into this mess unless it was their own store they wanted to sell.

I have lost my life savings by roger

I have lost my life savings to these scumbags.  They didnt call me to ask why I had closed my doors.  They changed my opening date 13 times.  They told me my store would sell north of $15000 a week.  They had understated the cost of the the project.  I could go on and on.  Banks lost a tonne of money.  I lost a tonne of money.  Credit card companies lost a tonne of money and Quiznos walked away with it all and have no remorse for causing me to go bankrupt.  If anyone wants to know some real and true stories in which I can with more then sufficient evidence back up my story you can email me at             rogerwaynee@hotmail.com

And the beat goes on at Quiznos by Barbara Jorgensen
Barbara Jorgensen's picture

Bankruptcy after bankruptcy.  Very sad.

thumb's down for quiznos subs by Guest ashi
dear elizbeth my story is same as yours we lost $200,000 dollars investing in this quiznos venture. i worked free for my store for 4.5 years and recently sold it for $ 25,000 half off it's money the broker took it as it commission it looks like it, we gave it away. I give grade F to quiznos
Quizno's by Guest
Some "outsider" comments on the Quizno's system (and the franchise business in general). My background: 35 years in restaurant ops, 20+ in the corporate world, mostly multi-unit/executive level. Director of Franchising for 60+ unit chain. I created (cloned) my own fast-casual concept 11 years ago, now have 3 units doing big city volumes in a town of 20k / county of 60k. Quizno's did their road show here a few years ago looking for a franchisee. I went to their presentation, told them my background... they didn't show any interest whatsoever. Granted the franchise to two locals with no restaurant experience (city police officers). This spoke volumes to me about Quizno's and their priorities. They didn't want experienced operators who might question anything they did... they wanted rookies who wouldn't rock the boat and were willing to sign the check without much real due diligence. The biggest issue I see with franchisors is that that their revenue is derived from the top line; many of them are not terribly concerned with a franchisee's long-term viability... just driving sales. The local store is in what I feel is a very poor location, and has been promoting their $5 large subs for months. I know they can't be making any money with that price point and 7-8% to the mother ship. There are many good franchises out there, but some seem to rely on just "churning" their stores over and over, then use their pocketbook to bully small operators who picked the wrong way to fulfill their dream.
future franchisee...maybe by Guest
Elizabeth, I read your message "A costly lesson" this evening and I found it to be very interesting. I've been in the process of purchasing an exsiting Quiznos here in my city, but with all the delays (at the fault of the seller) that have been happening, it has given me more time to research this company. I am a single mom who would be spending her savings for, what I thought, would be for the betterment of my family. Now I am not so sure if I am making the right decision. This deal has to wait another 3 months because a new disclosure is coming out April 14th. Maybe that's a blessing in disguise....its giving me more time to rethink my decision.
Re:Diary of a Struggling Quiznos Store Owner by Guest
The immortal words of Bob Babar ring loud and clear. "We are not fools, but we have been fooled." Mr.Brennaman - no amount of spin on your part will neutralize those resounding words emanating from the skies above. Accept responsibility and do the right thing to save the chain you are heading. The consequence of not doing so is a "black eye" on your resume.
Same sad story here...but how do I get out? by Guest
After another horrible week at our store I am finally ready to do anything possible to just get rid it! We have lost countless thousands of dollars to quiznos corp, with no relief in sight. So, from those of you who have had the pleasure to ditch your store...how did you do it?? I am desperate enough to sell it for a dollar at this point! Did you contact corporate for help to find a buyer or did you go throught commercial realestate agent? Any ideas will be really appreciated! Thanks, Frustrated & Broke in Chicago
New owner by Guest
How will the new owner make money if you have failed at that for 22 months? If you lost $45,000 in the last twelve months and he expects to make $30-35 K that is a swing of $80,000. I can see where he might save money on debt service or not even have any, but he'll have to replace your "volunteer" labor and that certainly could run $25,000 a year or more at just above minimum wage. Being a current Quizno's owner he should understand what he is up against, and the only way to accomplish this would seem to be to raise sales or decrease expenses. If you have any insight on that it could be helpful to others. Just getting a business for less than what a new one costs isn't a great reason to buy one, as the cost of the business should be related to the revenue produced. The same thing can be said in reverse to every business owner or real estate owner who keeps relating to what they paid, not what the market is currently paying.
1st Generation Success by Guest
Everyone talks about the poor first generation Quizno's owners selling for pennies on the dollar. Looks like the person who sold this location made out pretty well by selling it for $320,000. Based upon the range of costs 3 years ago for building a new location, that had to be dollars and pennies on their investment. Should this owner be condemned for selling this to Elizabeth and her husband. Did they disclose everything they knew? I'd hope that if they paid $320,000 for an open existing store they looked over the past P & Ls with an accountant. Based upon normal selling valuations you'd think that this location had to be showing a $60-75,000 a year profit to justify that price so there is more money for that first generation zee.
And Elizabeth, the stories continue. by Guest
I owned one for over 3 1/2 years. Never turned a profit. The other one in my town closed 19-22 months before and it didn't help boost sales at all. We were always a green ranked store, operationally very good. Never had a Q inspector tell me that my store wasn't run well......but NO PROFIT!! I asked one of the corp people to define to me what they meant when they said "Our goal should be running great restaurants". I asked one simple question....Define to me what running a great restaurant meant. Person looked at me kind of confused and I again asked the question... to which I was replied. "A great restaurant is one that is clean, one that people feel comfortable in and one where people will want to return". I looked at the person and said...."AND"....to which I received that same blank inquisitive stare. "What else is there"? was the reply I got. So I looked at the person and said "How about the great restaurant making the franchise owner profit"!! The person wouldn't answer me....politely packed up their laptop and left. Now how's that for their definition. Ya know Brenneman touts that FO profitablity is the main emphasis by the company....well then how come one of their OER Specialists didn't have that answer....CUZ IT"S ALL SMAKE AND MIRRORS FOLKS. THEY ARE, BY FAR, THE BEST COMPANY GOING WHEN IT COMES TO DECEPTIVE PRACTICES!! And yes Elizabeth, I too agree with your statement about how the first generation franchisee failure rate is/will be so high. That's why I continually used to voice that their goal was to use first generation FO's as their investment vehicle, knowing full well that many of them will fail, only to close, file bankruptcy, or be sold at a huge loss. Keep in mind that with the minor revisions to the UFOC (now known as the FDD) FO associations will be listed in there and you will be able to talk to other owners, maybe join an association and maybe help to have not only your voice heard, but many others. "Don't get into the bed with the sandwich devil"
question #1 by FuwaFuwaUsagi
FuwaFuwaUsagi's picture

Elizabeth, I appreciate your posting.  It is a great warning to others.  And you have my sympathy.  I am very curious about several things you have written, one of which is the 320k you paid.   How much of that 320k is coming out of your actual pocket?  

FuwaFuwaUsagi

FuwaFuwaUsagi

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers." 

same story by Guest
My story is the same as yours except to add the following. I lost over $200,000 Bankrupt Divorce took 24 months to sell for $80,000 Shame on you Quizno's Sub.
Quiznos Vultures Not So Smart by Guest
The guy who bought your store is a schmuck who will soon get the same thing you did. He's basing his profit projections on your current numbers but who says he can run the store as well as you did? Also, the economy is in a recession. So the Q does what it does best, screw the franchisees. Q will raise food and other prices to franchisees because the franchisee can't buy product from anyone else, the number of giveaway coupons that Q will issue and he'll have to honor will increase two-fold. Labor, utilities, and vendor costs will all increase. Of course Q will make money from the prices hikes and the kickbacks. On the sales side your buyer will watch fewer customers walk-in the door; as well as competitive and Quiznos pressure to hold the line on prices. Soon he'll be ready to sell for pennies on the dollar or simply walk away. And where do you think this vulture got his ideas that he could take your store and others and make the profit you couldn't? Dollars to donuts says it's the scum at Quiznos pushing this new "opportunity". It brings in a whole new crop of suckers to be drained and cleanses the system of "bad operators". Brennenman is no different than (p)Rick and Lil Dick Schaden. Just another rat looking to make his fortune on the backs of honest, hardworking franchisees.
Quiznos is not the only eveil company... by Guest
I owned 2 Taco Del Mar restaurants in Washington, lost over 500k over the last 3 years. Never could sell them. They have had around 50 stores close in the last year,(this is only out of 260 different locations). They brag about how they opened up 90 locations in the last year. Most of those stores I would guess are not even making it either. I will have to bet that over half the locations do not cash flow. Franchising sucks, I will never do it again. I make sure to tell anyone that asks about my franchising experience all about this crap going on. Good luck, I hope your family is able to recover. We are still paying off loans and will one day come out of this. Alex
Quiznos Vulture Not So Smart by Guest
This dope also had to pay for delivery. How much PROFIT does he think he'll make with $8 minimum delivery, an added employee on the clock, insurance, and outrageous food and other costs? For example, the pizza places are complaining about paying 1.70 a pound for mozarella cheese. Q franchisees pay nearly 2.50 per pound. Quiznos never did ROI's to get a real sense of what kind of impact delivery would have on franchisees. All franchisees have been told is how much money they can make. With the stores closely packed together in most markets, a product that doesn't deliver worth a darn, and a franchisor that could care less about the franchisee I'd say your buyer will soon be in the store doing what you were doing, working for free to keep his Quiznos from closing and complaining about being ripped off by the Q scum. But in my opinion this guy is also scum and he gets NO sympathy from me.
Franchise or Ponzi? by Guest
What really astounds me is how the Attorney General of Colorado has let this go on for so long. This is a Ponzi scheme, or as close to one as you can get. When it does hit the fan I do hope that ALL of the past and current "Executives" take the fall. The place is loaded with attorneys and they all know better, which should make them all liable.
Ponzi Scheme by Guest
I agree! The present state of the regulation of franchising permits franchisors like Cold Stone Creamery, Quiznos, the UPS Store, etc. and others to engage in predatory practices that should be illegal. Apparently, the AG's don't look at the UFOC's (FDD's or the Contracts, etc.) until there is a complaint made by a franchisee. The IFA is always busy protecting the superior position of the franchisors in the law of the contract These amicus briefs are not cheap ($50,000 to 100,000) and franchisees are not represented when these "industry" briefs are presented to the courts by the law firms who represent the franchisors. It is because franchisees are not considered consumers, or partners, or employees that they appear to have none of the rights that are extended to other consumers under the law. Why is this?
Quiznos (The Slave Driving Blood Sucking Machine) by Guest
I owned one for 2 years and lost over $350K. I made an attempt to communicate with Mr Brenneman via e-mail and I have this to share. Since this E-mail communiaction which was about a year ago I have sold the store for 160K and I feel Fortunate for I understand that most are not that lucky. Altough I have remaining loan of about 125K that I am making payments on, I am gratfull to be done with Quiznos, I Wish you all good luck and one word of advise please save your self and your family and get out ASAP. Dear Mr. Brenneman I am a successful Dentist with 2 flourishing practices and a hair saloon. I like to have a diversified portfolio and that is why I chose Quiznos as a franchise opportunity. I liked the food and the misleading sales person made this franchise very appealing. I own store #6145 in Chula Vista CA. I have had this store for just less than 2 years and I have lost over 150 thousand dollars and it does not seem to get any better. My store is one of the top 15 in San Diego and yet every month we loose 5-8 thousand dollars. There are more than 45 stores in San Diego, so it does not require a genius to figure out that more than 70% of your franchisees are losing money every month. I don't think this can be blamed on franchisees because I am certain that no other franchise organization has such a high loosing store percentage. There obviously is something wrong with this organization. Quiznos is one of the only franchisors that is actively advertising to recruit new franchisees with misleading ads and seminars. I am sure that practice of false advertising is still illegal in this country and with more than 70 % of your stores losing money, what else could, this practice of painting this pretty picture of Quiznos Franchise and how there is lots of money to be made, be labeled. If there was any truth to this claim than more than 70% of the existing franchisees would not be loosing money. I feel that the system does not work; simply put it is a failure. As the President & CEO of this company you are and should feel responsible for this failure. What I do not understand is how could a company rip so many people off day in and out and get away with it. I feel that I was cheated and mislead and mistreated from day one. The goal of this operation is to squeeze the franchisees for every penny and ad more victims to the least so there would be more to squeeze, instead of working with the existing franchisees to make them profitable. Quiznos takes no responsibility or owner ship of this problem. I have spoken to many fellow franchisees and they all agree with these facts. I hope that this letter sheds some light on this on going problem and helps you as a responsible party with the power to make change for the betterment of this brand for all parties involved. At the rate that this company is upsetting the franchisees it will not be long before these problems backfire. Quiznos needs to start addressing the issues and help share the burden of these losing and unprofitable stores where franchisees borrow against their homes to pay the franchise fees (which pays to run the Quiznos operation and salaries for the high paid executives) and all the other unnecessary but mandatory things enforced on them by the Quiznos regime. I would appreciate a response from you not from your secretary. Thank you Hossein - Thank you for your email. Let me start by addressing a couple of items in your message. First, I have been President and CEO a little over a month and have been leaving voicemails every week on how we are working to increase franchise owner profitability. Have you been listening to these every week at the number provided? If so, I would be interested in your thoughts. If not, please do so by dialing in today. Second, your data on franchise owner profitability is not even remotely close to accurate. We have all this information at corporate. That said, it sounds like you are not having a good experience and may be interested in selling your store. I am sorry your investment in Quiznos has not worked out but am happy to have someone help you sell it if you like. Please let me know. Warmest Regards. Greg Greg Thank you for your prompt response. I understand that you are new and you are making changes, I certainly do appreciate that. I think you would agree that for you to fix the problem you need to understand the problem and for that you need to know the facts out in the field, from the people who face them not the ones that have created this mess to start with. I think a lot of the info you get are brushed up and conveniently cleaned up data, the same kind they use to lure in potential franchisees. These are some of the facts food is good but expensive with very little profit margin if any. The break even seems to be around 8-10K (net3) weekly depending on the store size. As I said my store does around 7-8 and as I mentioned usually we are around #15 in SD. If I lose this much money every month, do you really think that the rest of the stores ranking from 15 to 80 profit. My stats were wrong, there 80 stores in SD not 45 which make the percentage even worse. I do not know if this info was given to you but these are facts. I have already expressed my interest to sell, I am not sure if you are aware but Quiznos stores do not move exactly like hot potatoes and if you are able to sell you'll be lucky to recover less than half of what it cost to built, not including any additional money lost during the years of operation. For me I have invested about 275K+ for built out and another 150K+ and increasing, in operational lose. If I sell at 150K I would consider my lucky, which means after I pay the agent I am left with 135K. If there is buyer today it will probably take 4-6 months before the transaction completed, that is if it does not fall through like so many cases that has according to an agent who has sold more that 40 of them and other franchisees I have spoken to. So good case scenario I would have lost over 300K if not more. Wow what do you have to say about that. I don't know about you but I don't consider loosing over 300K exactly fun. That may be peanuts for you but for most that is considered lots of money. This company has caused many to file bankruptcy, many have lost their homes and has claimed 1 life so far, nothing to be proud of. This info I am giving you is not a creation of my imagination but facts I have collected from professional sales agent and accounting firm. Only about 10% of the stores actually profit. I would love to see the data that you are getting, it is probably the same fabricated data that I naively fell for. I hope you don't find this boring, you guys are playing with peoples lives. One good thing you can do is to stop selling new franchises until you are able to clean up the mess that was created by your predecessors and the existing franchisees have to deal with everyday. Admitting that there is something wrong can go a long way. If you think my stats are wrong I would love to take any info that you can give me and compare it with what I have. Thank you for your time. Hossein Hoessin - Thanks for your follow up. I appreciate all your comments and am working very hard to focus the company 100 percent on FO profitabilty. I have been running large companies for a long time with great results. I am confodent That will happen here as well. I promiise you your financial data is WAY OFF. We have very good store level P and L data. For many reasons, including confidentiality I am not going to have our team review that with you. I am happy to either send one of our folks in to study your P and L and offer suggestions on how you can improve or I am happy to expedite a sale for you. Please let me know if you would like me to do either one. All the best. Greg Greg I appreciate the feed back and thank you for offering to help it is refreshing to hear these responses from quiznos headquarters. I hope that you are for real and the changes that you are promising will take effect. You should know that lively hood of thousands of franchisees are at your mercy. Please allow me a few days to decided my next course of action and i will let you know. I consider my self a business man and loosing all this money really bothers me and I would like to know where things went wrong and how I could have done things different so I wont make the same mistake in the future. Any word of wisdom from a man in your position would be greatly appreciated. Thank you Hossein Thanks Hossein. Let me know what you decide to do once you have thought about it. Warmest Regards. Greg
Sad and Broke in Chicago by Guest
You are between a rock and a hard place and will probably have to give us your store for almost nothing to someone (maybe provided by the Q) who is willing to take over your lease. I assume that you have a five or ten-year lease and I understand that the courts always honor the personal guarantees of the lease ----which can mean hundreds of thousands of dollars more in your debt column. Any new buyer of your store will know that you are stressed and that the lease can kill you and they will use that to bargain down the sale price. Apparently, the laws of the states treat lease defaults differently but most of them are strictly interpreted under contract law by the courts. I don't know whether or not Illinois has a "mitigation" loophole for commercial leases and none of our legal eagles on Blue Mau Mau will talk about this. That is, if you have to vacate, and the Landlord can find another tenant, are there time limits, etc..on which the Lanlord can get a judgment from the court, etc...I believe the new buyers, who get your assets in a fire sale, alway want to sub-lease from you in order to further reduce their risk ---in case they can't bring the business to "breakeven." You really need to talk to someone who is objective and I would suggest you look at the offer of Jim Herst who posts on Blue Mau Mau, and offers to talk to you anonymously and for nothing to see if he can help you in any way through the negotiation of your debt. Good Luck! Remember that you are not alone! So often, franchising sucks!
Re: Lease contracts by Guest
"I assume that you have a five or ten-year lease and I understand that the courts always honor the personal guarantees of the lease ----which can mean hundreds of thousands of dollars more in your debt column. Any new buyer of your store will know that you are stressed and that the lease can kill you and they will use that to bargain down the sale price. Apparently, the laws of the states treat lease defaults differently but most of them are strictly interpreted under contract law by the courts." A lease contract is nothing more than a good faith gesture of fulfilling the lease terms and obligations. If you are caught between a rock and a hard place, and cannot turn a profit over 2 years, you may terninate the lease and let the landlord take you to court if he chooses to. When the judge analyses the situation, he will side with you and tell the landlord to keep the security deposit, and go find another tenant. I have not gone thru this scenario personally, but have heard it from reliable sources.
Re: Re: Lease Contracts by Guest
Disregard the idiotic advice above read your lease and then get a lawyer to read your lease. It is not likely that the judge will side with you, however it is likely that the judge will read the contract/lease and render a decision in favor of the person with the superior contractual rights.
I have a new name for you it is called "Boy" by Barbara Jorgensen
Barbara Jorgensen's picture

Boy,

Please stop playing these little kid games. Stop all this bully stuff or I'll call your mommy to give you a good spanking.

Reply by Guest
You are making a relevant point. The following is your answer. There are three factors in play here: A large family to run the businesses, food cost reduction and not having a loan. With family members in charge, the food costs associated with operations can be monitored closely to inhibit costly practices. When an owner along with their family is able to constantly be in attendance at their stores, issues such as improper portioning, waste, "walking food" and give away's to family and friends are remote. Whereas, in my case, it is just me and I have had to rely upon employees from the community at the going rate - which is above minimum wage if one wants to keep anyone that is worthwhile. In addition, I have a serious illness that has made it necessary for me to hire a full time manager for $30K per year to help run the operation. Despite how badly I feel most of the time, I do spend a lot of time at the restaurant as well as an inordinate amount of time performing all of the paperwork associated with it when I am physically in attendance at the store. However, the aforementioned has made life very difficult. The most successful owners have an available supply of inexpensive or free labor in the form of family. They also have the peace of mind knowing that there is always someone with a vested interest watching each store 24/7. That in and of itself is beneficial. Unfortunately, the required reading of the "E Myth" has not worked in our case. For those of you who haven't read it, one of the major points in the book is that owning a business should contribute to the quality of one's life and give an owner the latitude to hire a well-trained staff, including a manager. The catch is that the costs associated with the operation must be low enough in order to afford this. My friend who owns a Subway which is making $2,000 less per week than my store has been able to do this because it has been less costly for him to own a Subway than for me to own my Quiznos. He has been profitable with a full staff and a manager even though he nets much less than we do on a weekly basis. The fact is that our food costs are some of the highest in the industry and since we have much food prep to perform on an ongoing basis, labor at our restaurants is also generally higher. Of course, an owner can work two people to the bone during a $1,400 day instead of having the required minimum of four employees on shift in order to cut the labor, however, these employees will not last long and you will end up training someone new every few weeks - which in itself comes with an additional series of costs associated with training. We all know what the costs associated with new employees entail: food waste, preparation mistakes, customers become impatient with new employees which reflects poorly on the store, etc. so I won't elaborate on this point. The buyer in our case, a current owner, has all cash so there is no loan for him to pay. In our case, we have a large loan, about $410,000 to pay off. The $90K after settlement costs and broker fees will net out to around $60K, which will go directly back into the loan in order to pay some of it down. The rest of the loan will be knocked down over the next several years in the form of payments. It will be extremely difficult for us, but that is the way it is. As I stated before, it has been a very costly lesson to put it mildly. The buyer has two other stores and is willing to take on a third. Each store makes a small profit, one a greater net return than the other because it is in a commercial area with more traffic than the other location. Because he is fortunate enough to have a large family involved in the operations of his businesses, he has been able to run them with 16% to 18% labor and 27% - 28% food cost on average. If he continues his current practices of employing family in this additional store, he will be able to pull out a small profit after expenses. Besides the obvious considerations: food quality, efficient, helpful service etc., low labor and food costs are the two most important factors in making any restaurant profitable. I hope this sufficiently answers your question. Regards, Elizabeth
Answer to Mr. FuwaFuwaUsagi's question: by Guest
Of the 320K, the entire amount was a second on our existing home. Unfortunately, we will still owe a great deal when all is said and done. In reality we will owe almost four hundred just on the second because of the additional money that we have had to feed the business in order to keep it viable. The profit from our sale will only come to about 75K after all broker's fees are settled. That amount will be put back into the mortgage in order to bring the principle down. The sad part is that this business HAD to work in order to make the second mortgage worthwhile. Because of this poor decision we are now in deep financial trouble. It seems so ubsurd that this is actually happening to us as I write this because it was such a horrible decision. I never thought myself capable of making such a flawed move. The funny thing is, the entire time during training, my gut instinct kept telling me to run the other way or better yet fail the test so that we would have an excuse for breaking the contract. I didn't realize that there even were sites like this on the internet. Had I known about forums such as this, I would have requested that my husband read them in order to convince him that this was not a good decision and we should follow my instincts. I never bucked though, being the perfectionist that I am I even aced all of the tests. I don't blame my husband though, after all who would have thought that a company such as Quiznos with good food, catchy commercials and so many stores would have such a dismal record of franchisee success. On the face they seemed like a solid investment, but in reality they are anything but one.
The Sanwich Devil by Barbara Jorgensen
Barbara Jorgensen's picture

Sure deserves to be stopped. I wonder what it would take to stop them from hurting so many people. Remember there is other off springs (franchises) they are starting. The best thing to do is have people tell their stories. While those of us who have been tremendously hurt by them have to deal with a different type of life that we are not use to. A life full of worry about paying landlords, lawyers and all the other bills. We should of never opened and used the money for lawyers. The key is to get out as soon as possible. Then you'll have money to fight the bad guys. Not to mention enough money to live a decent life.

 

 

"Don't get into the bed with sandwich devil, fitness devil, burger devil"

Keep the stories coming by Barbara Jorgensen
Barbara Jorgensen's picture

See the stories are consistant. Keep them coming so others will not make the same mistake. Hopefully justice will become a reality.

I am sorry you had to go through this. There are thousands out there going through financial hell.

Shame on you Quizno's. Hurting one person after another.

TDM by fishhead

Alex,

I am a current franchisee of a different system and am looking at the TDM concept.  I am in a market that is not currently being served in the Mexican segment.  My point of entry would be VERY cheap.  Are your loses primarily initial investment or operating costs?  I would like to talk with you more and will call you next week.

 

Potential TDM Fran

Potential TDM Fran
That is awful by Barbara Jorgensen
Barbara Jorgensen's picture
Yes franchising sucks. You and I will come out of this. Just continue to share your story with others so people will know the truth about franchising. Please talk to our guest that is considering buying a TDM. If he wants to give up his life savings, home, retirement and be a slave to this zor. Plus not get a paycheck buy a Quiznos or TDM.
Is this the item 20 ranter? by Barbara Jorgensen
Barbara Jorgensen's picture
Just curious. I thought you stopped writing.
Quiznos Owners Immoral by Guest
No, Q isn't the only rogue franchisor but Quiznos wrote the book that others use to rip-off franchisees. Quiznos is a mutation of McDonald's, a franchisor that used lawyers to take Kroc's concept of success and twist it to fit the Schaden's immorality and lust for money at any cost.
Just ask them by Barbara Jorgensen
Barbara Jorgensen's picture
verify their statements. Since the bad zors misrepresent so much it would take alot of time to verify everything they say. No one wants to be robbed. I have been mugged in my life time and it took me a while to not jump up and react whenever someone came up to me from the back. Being robbed from a franchise is emotionally upsetting. I am sure I will not trust many business people very easily. It really is hard to accept such unethical business practices. Again have them verify everything they say. In our case all we had to do is turn everything they said around and we got the truth. I believe there are no mistakes just learning lessons. A costly learning lesson but a learning lesson regardless. My heart goes out to each and everyone of you. I know what you are going through. I hope we all become smarter and not bitter because of this life experience. Bitter is too miserable existance. Like the British say, "Carry on." Yet I still would love to see justice become a reality.
Why aren't Zees considered consumers, partners or employees? by Guest
Because in a franchise relationship franchisees are not consumers, partners or employees. These are commercial transactions. One could ask why are tenants in a commercial lease not considered consumers, partners or employees? And the answer would be the same they simply are not consumers, partners or employees. It is naive and stupid to think that a franchise agreement is something it is not; a consumer relationship, when it is a business transaction. Whether you like it or not as soon as you sign a franchise agreement you have become a business person. Tory Britannia
If Greg is a good man by Barbara Jorgensen
Barbara Jorgensen's picture
how is he going to work with the Schadens? Good people simply don't like working with bad people. There is enough stories to hear how bad the company is. It doesn't take much to see the truth.
Wow by Barbara Jorgensen
Barbara Jorgensen's picture
this should be a blog.
Re: TDM by Guest
This is not specific to TDM, but in most cases the losses incurred in any start-up franchise are due to the lenght of time and sunk costs it takes to get to breakeven. And if you don't get there till your reserves run out, you have lost everything you sunk into the venture.
Call me whatever you like... by Guest
It won't change anything.
Guest by Barbara Jorgensen
Barbara Jorgensen's picture

Your story is so much like my story. I felt the same way. If I had discovered BMM before we signed the agreement I know we would of never done it. It is stories like yours that keeps coming up that proves something is wrong in the world of franchising that needs to be fixed.

I also had that gut feeling something was wrong but thought we were trapped and had to make this pig fly. It was the worst decision we ever made. I just wish we would of got out sooner.

We had a franchise that was started by the same people like Q. Is it any wonder we share the same out come?

(I have to write something because in case you are the guest bashing me for trying to console people with our experiences. I just want to say "Boo!")

Guest: You have my deepest by FuwaFuwaUsagi
FuwaFuwaUsagi's picture

Guest:

You have my deepest sympathies.  And I mean that sincerely.  Thank you for answering the question.   The reason for the query should now be obvious to all, it was to illustrate the "price" of the decision you made, perhaps others can learn from your words.  I commend for accepting that you made an unfortunate choice, you paid a very dear price for that education.  But as is said, in every misfortune there lay the seed of triumph.  I am confident with given time,  you will recover and prosper.  And take comfort in the fact you reached for the brass ring, so many others never try.  You will not live your live in regret for what might have been if only...you reached for your dream, that you fell short puts you in fine company with others of integrity that simply sought to walk their own way in life.

All the best, 

FuwaFuwaUsagi

FuwaFuwaUsagi

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers." 

And Don't Forget the aftermath of closing by Guest
I to Have lost my life savings in this scam called Quiznos. I was a clean store that recieved many green star awards. still due to encroachment and corporate greed I had to close my doors and walk away. then the nightmare really began.Quinos had the balls to sue me for future royalites. they can do this because it is stated in there one sided franchise agreement.so if you stay open you loose money if you close they come after you. quiznos is truly a no win situation for the FO. TO EVERYONE READING THIS PLEASE PLEASE DON"T INVEST YOUR MONEY IN A QUIZNOS NO MATTER HOW CHEAP OR WHAT THE AREA DIRECTOR TELLS YOU. P.S RICKIE AND DICKIE WHEN YOU LEAVE THIS EARTH YOUR NIGHTMARE WILL BEGIN FOR ETERNITY.
franchising sucks? by FranchiseOpport...

To give such a broad statement as "franchising sucks" shows how little you know. An entire industry covering such a huge ranges of businesses cannot simply "suck" There are of course bad eggs in franchising, there are once successful franchises that are now not so successful. As the market changes some franchises that used to do well can now find themselves in dire straights. There can also be changes of management which in turn do not understand the business model and make bad decisions. there are all sorts of ways a franchise can fail, there are also franchises which succeed and do so fantastically, even with market change. There are franchises with hundreds of happy and prosperous franchisees.

So, to say "franchising sucks" is a little naive, if not plain stupid. But then, thats the typical responce on open forums and comment boards.

Matthew Anderson
Franchise Opportunities Directory

<a href="http://www.the-franchise-shop.com">UK Franchise Opportunities Directory</a>
<a href="http://www.the-franchise-shop.com/two-minute-franchise-matching-service.html">Franchise Ideas & Matching Service</a>
This makes sense by Barbara Jorgensen
Barbara Jorgensen's picture
This says it all.
Everyone's pain is unique... by Les Stewart
Les Stewart's picture

...in their own eyes. Isn't that so?

However, when you see these things play out a few times, at perhaps more of a distance and with other investors, you see that Q [or X or Y or Z] are mere pimps in a second-rate bordello of an industry.

They put your critical thinking facilities on hold for long enough to spring a trap that only those with much greater intellectual ability built and charge protection fees to champion.

Franchisors like this are simply half-developed cowards who are more to pitied than feared. But if you make the material world your treasure, well...

They're going to crucify you.

And perhaps, over time, that is the gift these buffoons brought for you: Part of you has to die...every ass has his day... Tempting, though.

Les Stewart MBA
Understanding Franchising

Les Stewart MBA FranchiseFool :: WikidFranchise

Brennenman Is Not by Guest
a good man. He's not a Christian man. He's greedy scum, just different packaging. How else can you explain the way Quiznos continues to do business? (p)Rick and Lil Dick built a system still in place to this day that relies on sales to franchisees to generate earning and profits for corporate. Q encourages artificially low pricing in the restaurants and has no qualms about issuing predatory coupons to drop the prices even lower. Franchisees aren't treated as partners but as free labor and free money, paying the exorbitant prices and working the line seven days a week to keep a break-even operation, at best, from closing. Brennenman knows all of this and does nothing about it. He is only interested in a stock sale and his golden parachute. The number of Q's keeps dropping, the bankruptcies grow, franchisees lose everything; meanwhile Brennenman, (p)Rick, and lil Dick look at it simply as collateral damage to be swept aside. The greedy bastards have only one goal, to reach the gold at the end of the rainbow no matter what the cost.
If we are not employees of a franchisor by Barbara Jorgensen
Barbara Jorgensen's picture
Why do they have the power to terminate us? They put that on a contract. If we are indeed an independent business person why do they have so much power to gouge us? If we own our own business none of this should be able to take place. And we should be able to make the decisions on whether or not we should buy through them. It doesn't make sense.
To blog or not to blog. by FranchiseOpport...

At times it is easier to submit as an article perhaps.

Matthew Anderson 

UK Franchise Opportunities Directory

<a href="http://www.the-franchise-shop.com">UK Franchise Opportunities Directory</a>
<a href="http://www.the-franchise-shop.com/two-minute-franchise-matching-service.html">Franchise Ideas & Matching Service</a>
Franchising Sucks for Andrew in the UK by Guest
Your Minister of Industry doesn't want the government of the UK to regulate franchising because she knows that this gives a false sense of security to the unsophisticated who buy franchises as a vehicle for a job and profits. I have been waiting for over a year now for the testimonials of these hundreds of happy and prosperous franchisees. It would seem that the franchisors would "pay them" to get out here on Blue Mau Mau and testify about how successful they are, or something. The hype around franchising is all about obscuring the actual risk to the investor job hunter and getting his/her signature on an adhesory contract in which the new franchisee indicates that they are buying the franchise with the knowledge that there is 100% risk of failure and that the franchisor has promised them neither success or profits.
You have a point - to a point by Guest
You are correct in your observation. There are very good companies in the world of franchising, however, you must understand that these people have had terrible experiences. Until you spend a day in their world, you will not truly understand their pain. Many comments are written largely in an emotional manner, whereas, there are considerable more fair and logical contributions such as the "costly lesson" post that I have recently reviewed. The main consensus, despite the vastly differing comment styles, is that these people have had very unfortunate experiences. No not all companies are the devil incarnate, but I find it very interesting that so many of the posts site the same companies time and time again. Regardless of emotion or writing style, that in itself is very telling. Best Regards
True to form by Barbara Jorgensen
Barbara Jorgensen's picture
Are all these stories lies? I think not. More I want to hear more. Consistancy proves there is proof of this evil zor. And yes I can't see them viewing the pearly gates of heaven. Their billions will not buy themselves into a peaceful eternity. Justice will happen.
You have to verify what you say by Barbara Jorgensen
Barbara Jorgensen's picture

Are the franchises successful 1st, 2nd or company stores? Be specific about who is successful. The first generation zee has a less chance of making it and they get sucked dry financially. Franchising sucks especially for the first to open. And perhaps the 2nd generation will go under also. Another zee sucked dry financially. Now do you see why I and many across the interenet proclaims franchising sucks?

Many franchise lawyers also say there are very few good franchises. Several I talked to in person and on the phone. In fact one franchise lawyer stated he carries his whole law firm. With the others getting a few cases. What does that tell you?

Maybe the point is, Franchisors Suck! by Guest
Ok, a little bit of a generalization, but 98% do give the rest a bad name. And what is the difference between the ex-Gov of NJ and the to be ex-gov of NY? one is a sucker and the other is a spitzer?
the bad eggs outnumber the good eggs. by Guest
by quite a bit it would appear, or else public boards such as these IMHO wouldn't be as one-sided (pro-zee/anti-zor) as they are. One could make the case that successful zees have neither the time nor inclination to spend any time on a board like this - but certainly franchisor brokers/advocates like yourself do and you are few and far between with respect to visiting this site and posting (which i appreciate and encourage you to continue so long as you're not slinging personal attacks like a certain 'truthiness' numbnut that was in here for a while but stopped posting about a month ago) to defend your industry. btw, what are the franchisors with "hundreds of happy and prosperous franchisees"? I'm guessing McDonalds is one and i agree with that. Care to shed some light on some others? Also, how do the franchisors on your site paying for advertising react if they don't make your list of 'Featured Franchise Opportunities'? Or are they one and the same? That just can't be, because you "have carefully looked at each of the featured franchise businesses to make sure each one meets our high standards." -- according to your website. That is correct, right? Just want to clarify... thanks in advance- Sleep Tight.
As a franchisee you do not by FuwaFuwaUsagi
FuwaFuwaUsagi's picture

As a franchisee you do not own your own business.

FuwaFuwaUsagi 

FuwaFuwaUsagi

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers." 

3rd generation owner by Guest
Bought Quiznos in july 08. Lost 15000 thousand last half of year. Things are finally turning around. Will probably post a profit in Jan.2009
Q Franchisees Do NOT Own Business by Guest
As a Q franchisee I can honestly say the FuwaFuwaUsagi is 100% correct. We're cash cows and free labor, period. We have no say over product offerings, advertising, most costs, or decor. It's a deal with the devil one that can be lucrative if your franchisor is McDonald's, or disastrous if you sign-on with (p)Rick, lil Dick and the rest of the Q scum.
Real Business Owner by Bob Frankman
Bob Frankman's picture

The bank owns your business. Stop paying them and watch what happens.

Re: True to form by Guest
Elizabeth has said it all ......... If you are still in the Q system, or seeking justice after exiting, the best avenue is to join the TSFA. http://toastedsubs.info You will be glad you did, and gain the support of owners similarly situated.
Gross Analogy by Barbara Jorgensen
Barbara Jorgensen's picture
Okay Franchisors Suck!!!
Good Eggs May Be Silent Majority by Bob Frankman
Bob Frankman's picture

"bad eggs outnumber good... or else public boards such as these IMHO wouldn't be as one-sided (pro-zee/anti-zor) as they are." - Sleep Tight

Not necessarily true.

Consider this: Zees are a busy lot. Ex-franchisees may have more time than current zees. And disgruntled zees may have considerably more passion to post.

Banks Don't Have To Be Forever by Guest
But the franchisor is forever and forever in charge.
Nothing by Barbara Jorgensen
Barbara Jorgensen's picture

could be closer to the truth. This is the reality that most victims of the franchise world cannot get a grip of. When they do a whole new world opens up to them. A world of crooks that hide behind their one sided UFOC. Giving them permission to be unethical to the max. Cost people's lives being ruined financially, emotionally and sometimes loosing their spouses due to the stress of it all.

Fuwa claims life is unfair and he is right. Until we grasp that reality we will not understand the mind of the zor. He is out for himself and until we understand that the zor is evil (Q) then we are incapable of protecting ourselves. They are looking for ways of using our money, labor to build his brand and empire.

I tend to look only at the good. Let's face it- the world is more fun to live in when we see only the good. Reality is to acknowlege evil and know how to protect ourselves from these scum of the earth.

In the franchising world to protect us we need to seek the right franchise lawyer. Until we do that we should never sign a franchise agreement or any contract.

 

 

 

"Write" on! by Guest
When an owner works like a dog for years with not only zero pay off, but they are actually paying to work, oh yes there is passion. Watching everything that our families have built over an entire lifetime be drained away - you bet there is passion. Telling our children that they have to move because we can not keep our homes any longer makes one very passionate. Informing our children that we can no longer afford to send them to college because it isn't financially feasable causes intense passion. Being told that we must either be not working long enough or hard enough eventhough most of us have no finger nails left, our hands are scarred by the burns from the oven, our knuckles are scabbed and constantly trying to heal because of all of the unpaid "public service" hours that we perform, our legs and backs ache because of the long days that never seem to end, waking up every morning only to realize that so many of our lives have become like groundhog day and the whole nightmare gets to begin again - evokes extreme passion. you had better believe that we all are passionate. It is not that we have too much time on our hands which enables us to share. Rather we are compelled to find the time to communicate the wrongs that have taken place. It is our duty as civilized human beings to inform others so that they may not fall victim to the same fate. Those with a conscience have the desire to help others to avoid making "a costly mistake" as described in a recent post. It is a crime in and of itself to stand by and allow others to be victimized. That in itself makes the knowing bystander no better than those who have facilitated wrongful acts against all of us. When the Nay sayers have walked in our very shoes, only then do they gain the right to criticize. Perhaps then they will truly understand our passion. We are all strangers, yet, because of our shared experiences we stand as one entity - filled with passion. "Write" on!
Can small zees join? by Barbara Jorgensen
Barbara Jorgensen's picture
Since I am no longer a zee I wondered if zees who joined a starting up zee can join th TSFA? But we are still in the after math of the storm. I know of many from our zee that is unhappy. It just kills me to know eventually most zees end up in financial hell. It's all greed and they don't care who they hurt. They can eat, drink and be merry now on the sweat of the people they hurt. You don 't live forever. We are fragile beings and death is just a breath away.
I addressed the very point you are making... by Guest
in my post. You're right, it may not necessarily be true for the very points that you make and that i had previously made in my post -- which to me are identical. I don't have smoking gun proof, i'm just drawing some conclusions based upon some some observations i've made regarding the activity of this site and others. If i put myself in the shoes of a broker, and and as a broker i truly believe in the inherent value of franchising as a roadmap to financial success, I think i'd be on here defending my industry given the visibility this site is beginning to achieve. Not by hurling personal insults and flaming others (a la TIF) but rather by laying out rational arguments that refute the sentiments of the vast majority of posters here -- and i'd do it in a professional manner (a la Dale from FranSynergy - whom despite the fact i disagree with almost everything he posts he's at least a gentleman about it). So where are the proponents of franchising whose credibility, business model, and sometimes ethics are being questioned by the likes of myself and others on this board? I know that the visitors to this site would not constitute a truly representative sample of those in the franchising industry if i were to show my conclusions to a statistician. I admit my conclusions aren't using any scientific method -- but i do know my personal experience and, in researching the pitfalls of franchising for the past year (i feel into one of those pitfalls but have now been out for a few months), I've seen plenty of smoke to support my conclusions. And you know the saying, "where there's smoke..." Sleep Tight.
When I was a zee by Barbara Jorgensen
Barbara Jorgensen's picture
I stayed busy. Now I am simply trying to understand what happened. Good eggs can be ripped off also and having to go through the process of grief. Don't generalize like your doing. You don't know everyone's story and what they are feeling. I assure you if you lost alot due to unethical business practices of a zor you wouldn't exactly be celebrating. Part of the passion of writing on here is to learn what went wrong.
Forever by Bob Frankman
Bob Frankman's picture

Boy did you get the worst of all franchise contracts - not 5 years, 10 or even 20 but one with no ending.

Well, when you are in heaven and think you've escaped your perpetual clause, just remember that God was the first franchisor. He franchised man in his brand image. Then commanded him to pay tithes.

Elizabeth's story, and answer to small zee's question by Guest
I for one can empathize with Elizabeth's plight. My wife and I bought into the idea that we were qualified to purchase 2 franchise agreements (build 2 stores) and were convinced this was the best choice if we wanted to achieve financial independence. Q withheld crucial information about our market, knowing the (then) current stores were running almost $100,000 under the national averages in net 2 sales. They steered us toward the closest stores to us for our "due diligence", but did not bother to tell us that those stores were by far the best stores in the region. They did not make a distinction between "Net 2" and Net 3" sales, and we thought that "Net" meant "Net", not GROSS sales before all discounts and complimentary food. They did not bother to tell us that one location they wanted us to take was not an approved location for an additional restaurant by the local zoning authorities, and that a variance would need to be requested and approved before a restaurant could be built in that location. Instead, they touted that location as (by far) the best location left to be sold in our market area. When we finally agreed on 2 suitable locations and presented our business plan to our bank (a Quiznos preferred lender), we learned that we lacked sufficient collateral to be approved for 2 restaurants, even though we still qualified under Quiznos' BOGUS guidelines. In order to help us realize our "dream", our parents decided to help by using their stock as collateral to guarantee our loan. We wish now that we had walked away from our $45,000 investment in Quiznos, and had never built 2 restaurants. Like Elizabeth, we never turned a profit, and we lost no less than $150,000 annually when both restaurants were in operation. We sold our stores for about 12 cents on the dollar for what we invested, and our parents had to pay off the commercial loan to get us out from under the Q thumb. Our marriage is still intact. But we have managed to lose our stock investments, our savings, 401K, and much of our inheritance. But on the brighter side, we no longer have the burden of maintaining a good credit score. And now we qualify for programs that were previously only a dream, like FOOD STAMPS AND MEDICAID!!! Before we lost everything, we made the decision to join TSFA and join the ongoing national lawsuit. When we read the text of the complaint, it became obvious to us that what the A.D. of Sales told us was not something he or his R.E. Broker had come up with on their own. Rather, the stories from individuals across the nation are so similar to eachother and to our story that there is only one logical conclusion that could be reached: The scheme to defraud prospective franchisees and lure them into giving up their rights and their livelihoods to an unscrupulous Franchisor was orchestrated and coordinated from the very top of the organization. Rick Schaden, his Daddy Dick, and legal pinheads thought of the whole thing, and wrote a franchise agreement with one thing in mind: to protect themselves from prosecution from angry franchise owners when they realized they had been had. And just this last Friday, we hear Greg B ridiculing our "29 year old lawyer", suffering "defeat after defeat" in the pending lawsuits against Quiznos. GB failed to mention that on March 5, the judge in Colorado "refused" Quiznos' motion to dismss one of those lawsuits. G.B. also failed to recognize that age (or lack of age) does not equate to merits of the case or the morality and ethics being questioned. He is obviously trying to convince other suffering franchisees not to join the ongoing lawsuit. Furthermore, he fails to recognize that this "29 year old lawyer" is only one member of a much larger team that has many years of experience in dealing with unscrupulous business practices. To listen to Greg sticking his foot into his mouth (perhaps Quiznos' newest foot-long sub), we invite you and others listen to Greg's company message, by calling 888-999-1573. If you have lost everything you own to the Q and are out of the system, it is not too late to join TSFA and get involved in one of the lawsuits pending. We lost nearly $1 million to Q, and figure the $2,000 flat fee to join the lawsuit is well worth the risk of losing it. We have a far greater chance of getting our investment back than we ever had earning an ROI as Quiznos Franchisees.
So funny by Barbara Jorgensen
Barbara Jorgensen's picture

Can't stop laughing. The only difference is God isn't evil. Plus he doesn't need our money. The churches do. That is not God. And yes he does command us to tithe. Long time ago the tithe was to help support the preacher and give to the poor.

The difference in franchising is the zor takes from the zee who isn't even near as rich as him. Then in a short time the zor gets all his money. I call it King Zor and his peasents.

In history you see many kings overthrown. I am hoping there will be justice for the zees. And King Zor will be out in the cold like he has done to us. What goes around comes around.

Unlimited term franchise agreements can be termnated at will by RichardSolomon
RichardSolomon's picture

unless there are specific clause that restrict contract rights. If all iit says is that it can only be terminated for cause, that's probably not enforceable.--

Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School


Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School
A million by Barbara Jorgensen
Barbara Jorgensen's picture

That is horrible. The sad part they are not stopping with Quiznos. Schaden will continue to start one franchise and another. His newest is Smash Burger. We bought into 123 fit. Many lies. We didn't loose as much but have to sell another business to pay for the lost of this unwise adventure. Many of the clubs are dropping out.

I understand Smash Burger is Shaden's newest franchise. But they still own 50% of Quiznos.

Since we share the same UFOC, (which the name Quiznos appears accidently) it will be interesting to see the out come of the trial. We are all waiting to see what happens.

a question... by FuwaFuwaUsagi
FuwaFuwaUsagi's picture

How did you manage to lose your 401k?

Curious,

FuwaFuwaUsagi

FuwaFuwaUsagi

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers." 

Question about Maryland State Law by Guest
Hello FuwaFuwaUsagi, You seem to be very informed so I thought that I would ask you a question about the law. In Maryland, can the franchise require the signing of the consent to transfer papers when there is a clause in the documents that require the seller to forfeit any and all rights or recourse against the franchisor for anything whatsoever in the past, present or future? Isn't that forcing the seller to sacrifice their rights just to get the business transferred? Isn't that like holding a seller hostage? Is that legal in Maryland? We are in a situation where the franchisor has told us that we must sign the transfer consent documents as written, otherwise we will be unable to proceed. This doesn't seem legal. Can you help me with this question? Thanks for looking this. P.S. For those franchisees in the state of Maryland who are intending to transfer their franchise to another franchisee who already owns one or more of the same franchise, those parties are not required to wait until Maryland enters back into disclosure in order to proceed with the sale of their business because they are already in the system. Only new franchisees and new persons buying a franchise are required to wait until Maryland comes back into disclosure. Many of us have been misinformed by the company and the law is very clear in Maryland regarding this issue. Unfortunately, we had to find out on our own when we called the State's Attorney's office to find out when disclosure would be reinstated. What can we expect though? Misinformation and distortion of facts are totally in character for the Q.
How did you manage to lose your 401k? by Guest
We manageed to lose our 401K because we had to cash it in to meet our Q obligations on the hope that GB would live up to all the fluff he threw at us when he took over. His performance to date has not been much better than Stevie's I should have thrown in the towel before the fight started.
No 401K For Quiznos by Guest
We faced the same decision concerning whether to close or dip into our 401k's, however, our decision was really pretty easy. Brennenman was there long enough for us to determine that nothing had really changed at Q, that GB has no clue how to run a QSR, and that cashing out of the 401k's would just be throwing good money after bad.

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