Purvin Justifies Decision to Suspend Cuppy's Accreditation
In talking with Purvin prior to the conference, he said he had no idea what to expect from listeners, but planned to make opening remarks and read the letter sent to Cuppy's. At that point he said he would open the lines to those listening, allowing them to ask questions and give comments. Purvin's introduction and announcement lasted approximately 30 minutes, but the inevitable discussion went on for two hours.
During his opening remarks Purvin said, "I happen to believe that AAFD accredited contracts are an important tool to help us rebalance the franchising industry. And I happen to believe that if we lose accredited contracts or back away it will be a terrific disservice to the franchise community." He said the people who signed the new accredited contract have the closest contract to full compliance that AAFD has ever graded. Purvin feels AAFD has empowered franchisees by making it easy for them to become organized and to move their agenda. To that point he said, "When this call is over I am hopeful that the Cuppy's franchisees that are on the call will seize their opportunity to contact us so we can help them organize into an effective organization that's able to achieve real solutions to the problems they are facing."
But in closing his introductory remarks, Purvin said, "I do want to make a statement to you about the AAFD's investigation of Cuppy's compliance and criteria to retain AAFD's accredited contract status. This has been an investigation that was launched by public scrutiny and information that came to us through various Internet blogs, including Blue MauMau, with who we have collaboration and communication. The bloggers have been free in both their praise and criticism of the efforts of the AAFD. But this issue began with allegations that the second management group of Cuppy's Coffee, more of the Morgan management group, had made contractual commitments to owners, basically in a contract with the lead manufacturing, that there was a rider refund if a franchisee was ultimately turned down for financing. The allegations on the Internet were that many people had been denied those refund claims."
Purvin explained that when they began their investigation they were able to track some 22 refund claims, at that time with the help of the company, and as of May 1, 2008, "we determined that all but four of them had been resolved in a period of six months. Of the remaining four, the company had committed that those were in dispute and under Morg Morgan's management that those matters would be mediated through the AAFD. They also committed that they would subsidize the efforts of the franchisees forming an independent owners association."
"When Dale Nabors took over the company there were statements that those commitments would still be honored, but they have not followed through," Purvin said. "When he brought mediation to Nabors, he and the company ignored the engagement of that mediation. The new management declined to advance its promised subsidy of an owners association and for the past six weeks our telephone and email communications have gone unanswered. "Cuppy's has gone silent on us."
Reporter's note: Stay tuned to Blue MauMau for more coverage on the discussions during the Cuppy's conference call
Related reading:
AAFD Accreditation of Cuppy’s Coffee
- Franchise topic:
- Enter Your Own Tag:
The point of accrediting a franchise contract is to provide for the existence of a viable IndFA.
The franchisor must provide the necessary resources to create this.
If the franchisor fails to do so, the point of having an accredited contract fails to exist and the accreditation may be suspended.
Michael Webster PhD LLB
Franchise News
Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"
I'm curious as to what happened between May, when Purvin went to their offices and gave the 'preliminary approval' and mid - June when Cuppy's stopped all communications with the AAFD.
Did Michael stumble upon something during his investigation and that soured the relationship?
jd:
I think this happened:
Forget the fact that Cuppy's franchisees - the majority of whom aren't or likely never will be open - need an AAFD association like a fish needs a bicycle, Dale committed the ultimate sin of refusing to pay the piper.
Sean Kelly
seankelly[at]ideafarm.net
Cuppy's Blogliography
seankelly@ideafarm.net
IdeaFarm, Franchise Pick
Franchisor Marketing
The entire point of getting an accredited contract is to have in place the necessary resources to getting an IndFA.
If Cuppy's franchisees don't need an IndFA, there is no point in Cuppy's maintaining the accreditation.
Michael Webster PhD LLB
Franchise News
Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"
a total of three franchisees bother to dial a phone number-- and a toll-free one at that.
There were more third-party folks in attendance than franchisees.
Bob Purvin should have told the Cuppy's depositors that Purvin would discuss who will win "So You Think You Can Dance."
It would have garnered more call-ins.
Paul Steinberg
Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400
Paul Steinberg, Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400
Michael Webster PhD LLB
Franchise News
Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"
My mac doesn't like don's ajax editor.
My point was that only the 5 franchisees that the AAFD emailed for an exploratory talk were on the call because no more franchisees were invited.
Michael Webster PhD LLB
Franchise News
Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"
You use a mac? No wonder you were exiled to the Sibera of the America's.
FuwaFuwaUsagi
FuwaFuwaUsagi
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers."
Have a iBook G4, 2 Windows XP machines which are going to be converted to Vista, a Tower G3, and an old 7300.
Probably upgrade one of the XP machines to a Linux box, and use it to serve various client files, and next tower purchase will be a reconditioned G5 or a 24" iMac.
Michael Webster PhD LLB
Franchise News
Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"
Michael writes:
Have a iBook G4, 2 Windows XP machines which are going to be converted to Vista, a Tower G3, and an old 7300.
Probably upgrade one of the XP machines to a Linux box, and use it to serve various client files, and next tower purchase will be a reconditioned G5 or a 24" iMac.
My reply:
Whew...mystery solved. When you mentioned you used a mac I thought, huh, how did he father children? But now it is clear, you were just working with the mac to develop a more sensitive side to make you a better husband and father. I can understand that.
LOL .
FuwaFuwaUsagi
FuwaFuwaUsagi
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers."
Fuwa,
I would have stayed with Unix and Vi, but this funny little company called Microsoft in the mid 80's made it mandatory for all PC's to run some weird little gui system.
Heard that they got in some anti trust problems for that.
Actually, kids who are near 5, do play on the Macs. They know that if they touch Daddy's Windows machine, it will be "very bad", as one of them said as they accidently re-booted the machine!
Michael Webster PhD LLB
Franchise News
Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"
And they got of it by cutting a deal with the Government, which essentially means everything you do is available for review with a simple court order.
Vi editor huh, ever wonder why you use the keys you need to move up and down? Because those key combinations were actually for the keys on an old keyboard that had up and down arrows in those positions.
FuwaFuwaUsagi
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers."
FuwaFuwaUsagi
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers."
Just booted up terminal on the iBook and tried out vi again.
No idea what I was doing! I should play with it more.
Michael Webster PhD LLB
Franchise News
Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"
Do like all pros do, use notepad or an ISPF emulator and then file transfer it over to the unix box...LOL.
FuwaFuwaUsagi
FuwaFuwaUsagi
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers."
Yeah, so I can write bubble sort programs in cobol and prime factoring programs in fortran.
(the vi editor in mac's unix is now vim. who knew?)
Michael Webster PhD LLB
Franchise News
Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"
Real men write 360 Assembler.
Actually, given the bugs that have plaqued Winx and Intel for serious number crunching, Fortran still has its place.
fortgo (the old compiler command for Fortran for those that are curious)
FuwaFuwaUsagi
FuwaFuwaUsagi
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers."
"Real men write 360 Assembler" with punch cards.
Michael Webster PhD LLB
Franchise News
Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"
Have you gotten around to upgrading the memory on this bad boy, Michael?
Translation for those of us not loyal to the Queen:
"Mac" is short for "mackintosh" which is a type of raincoat; which in turn is slang for "condom."
Paul Steinberg
Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400
Paul Steinberg, Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400
Today kids have all these toys. When I was a kid, I was so poor that for me to have anything to play with, my folks just cut holes in my pockets.--
Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com, has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School
Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com, has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School
What is this with the 2-word posting? With rare exceptions, it is not acceptable for Canucks to be inscrutible.
Any way that you slice it, they only got three franchisees to call. Even if half the other calls were regulators and/or attorneys, that is not the point.
Franchisees need to stop relying on the kindness of strangers. If I were a "depositor" zee, you can be sure I would have been on that call, regardless of whether my attorney was also online.
Paul Steinberg
Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400
Paul Steinberg, Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400
Much like the real trade associations in Europe which protected merchants, the AAFD is the only franchising trade association which membership has to be earned, maintained, and if not, it can be revoked.
All of the other so called franchising trade associations are little more gathering of the clans clamouring for their self-interest. And there is nothing wrong with that. Just don't pretend you are a real trade association.
Michael Webster PhD LLB
Franchise News
Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"
useful or significant resource. Earning your way into a nothing organization is hardly an apt characterization. Being thrown out of it? Gimme a break! Who has ever been thrown out? I can't imagine anything more social and less useful that the AAFD. There can't be a worse piece of crapola masquerading as a franchisee interest protection resource.
With that said, I am now going to stop punching this jellyfish.--
Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com, has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School
Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com, has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School
I've never heard of a franchise association kicking out a member -- well, suspending membership. Times are changing for the franchise industry.
Who is this mouse that roars?
. . . but rather Solomon would say the AAFD is the jellyfish that gurgles.
Jellyfish-eating turtles are confused.
Real trade associations have reputational requirements.
Cuppy's along with other franchise systems were awarded based on their contract and express commitment to collaborative franchising certain status.
That status has been very valuable to all the other franchise systems when it comes to selling - that they have been accredited a good reputation.
Unlike the flake organizations like the IFA, whose ethics codes are meaningless, when you are found to no longer deserve the AAFD's good reputation, then you are canned.
Cuppy's accredited contract status has been suspended.
Name me another franchise organization that has ever moved against fee paying member.
There aren't any.
Richard, you need to get past this. You are just wrong on this one.
Michael Webster PhD LLB
Franchise News
Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"
Michael, Michael, Michael...
Please don't pull a Purvin by trying to spin the AAFD's actions in regards to Cuppy's as anything but way too little, way too late. The best that can come of this for the AAFD is "We screwed up. We meant well, but in launching a new program that was not sufficiently thought out, we got used. We were unwitting accomplices, and have taken serious steps to prevent this from ever happening again."
Making the contention that, based on this tepid admonishment of Cuppy's, the AAFD is somehow even in the same league as much less superior to the IFA is embarrassing. The IFA represents a group of franchisors and furthers their interests quite effectively. It's not clear exactly WHAT the AAFD does or even is trying to do.
Since the AAFD's history with Morg Morgan goes back to another allegedly corrupt franchise enterprise, Slender Lady, could the real function of the AAFD be to provide franchisors with a way to divert franchisee disputes into a sort of "quiet room" where unhappy franchisees are entertained by an illusion of representation? Why else would a company like Morg Morgan's Cuppy's fund a franchisee association?
Think about it.
The fact that he wouldn't play ball with the AAFD may have given me a new found respect for Dale Nabors.
seankelly@ideafarm.net
IdeaFarm, Franchise Pick
Franchisor Marketing
Sean, you are going to have to get used to the AAFD actually being a force for franchisor's reputation.
The IFA's code of ethics are farce - meaningless drivel, designed as a fig leaf for some of their more predatory members.
Any of your unhappy franchisees belong to an IFA Franchisor?
Hmm, and no complaints from your blog about the IFA's Code of Ethics?
Nothing from that superior gang?
Michael Webster PhD LLB
Franchise News
Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"
Are you really contending that the AAFD tries to provide franchisors a way to divert franchisee disputes int a sort of "quiet room" where unhappy franchisees are entertained by an illusion of respresentation, or was that just your quickest way of squeezing in another self-serving link to your website?
It's no surprise that your response is "too little, too late". (It was actually predicted). It's also no surprise that you can't understand or comprehend the AAFD's mission. Why don't you provide us all with a synopsis of what the AAFD accomplished in the Slender Lady episode so that we can fully understand how they merely "entertained with the illusion of representation"?
Mr. Purvin is often accused as having surgically attached rose colored glasses, but I would find that preferable to filtering everything through a pair tinted with cynicism, skepticism, distrust and spite. At some point, how about some insight instead of just incite?
"spin the AAFD's actions in regards to Cuppy's as anything but way too little, way too late." - Sean Kelly
No one ever accused the AAFD of being fast. All those meetings, coordinating and lawyerly debating took several months since the issue was brought up in their meeting of members. Now if Purvin were dictator supreme, he could have made a decision and that was that.
Seems like the AAFD is bigger than Purvin. Purvin should be proud.
Better late than never.
Bob:
It's no longer late. It IS never. I humbly submit:
1) There is no AAFD accredited contract, is there? Has Cuppy's Coffee prepared disclosure document in the new format? So this accreditation is referring to some outdated contract that may or may not have ever have been used? Is there even a franchisee open who has the accredited contract?
2) The AAFD waits until they cease selling franchises to suspend accreditation?
3) The AAFD waits until the ownership that caused this mess - Bob's buddy Morg - is long gone and lays down a suspension on Dale - the guy with no evidence of having done anything wrong?
4) The AAFD waits until it's clear that Dale won't be paying them to form a franchisee association - then takes back their cookie?
5) It's coincidence that the AAFD (Bob) stands firmly by Cuppy's FR management as long as they've made the commitment to pay them to administer an association, but is willing to suspend them after Dale "goes silent" on them?
6) Does Bob really think Cuppy's should give him the money paid to Cuppy's by the involuntary investors to "subsidize" one of his little Student Council associations instead of returning it to its rightful owners?
Dale may turn out to be all right after all. AAFD & SBT both seem a bit irritated with Dale's refusal to honor the wink and a handshake deals they made with his predecessor.
Sean Kelly
seankelly[at]ideafarm.net
My Take
Cuppy's Blogliography
seankelly@ideafarm.net
IdeaFarm, Franchise Pick
Franchisor Marketing
Webster wasn't the only one who found Sean Kelly's response to the AAFD revocation puzzling. Of all people, Carol Cross wrote the following on Sean's own website :
Carol Cross. Seriously. Can't make this stuff up.
Paul Steinberg
Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400
Paul Steinberg, Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400
It would appear that the mistake made by Morg Morgan at Cuppy's is that he did not retain the proper public relations firm.
I am as naive as those Cuppy's depositors.
I was clueless as to the fact that the most vociferous attacker of Bob Purvin was simultaneously seeking to be the public relations firm for competitors of Cuppy's.
This adds up. If the AAFD award is as powerful a sales tool as Sean Kelly (or his clients) perceive it to be, then going after the AAFD is a logical step. And personification of an entity (for good or bad) is a classic public relations technique.
So, my question to Sean Kelly is: Is the following portion of your website a joke, or were you indeed secretly working for your client competitors of Cuppy's?
For the full website, click here .
Just out of curiosity, am I the only one on BMM who did not know of this undisclosed conflict of interest?
Paul Steinberg
Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400
Paul Steinberg, Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400
WTF?
I am attacking the AAFD to get coffee clients? What?
Tell me you're not serious.
seankelly@ideafarm.net
IdeaFarm, Franchise Pick
Franchisor Marketing
Actually, my thought was that your attack on the AAFD is of benefit to your current clients.
But certainly the ability of your firm to demonstrate the ability to mount an attack against a competitor without revealing that it is mounted on behalf of a competitor is self-evident and I would think you a fool if you did not use it on your next sales pitch.
As to getting coffee clients, I assume that they already know about your book , and I have helpfully quoted from your website offering your public relations/marketing services.
So yeah, you are looking to get coffee clients. And you should have disclosed that, up front and during the course of your postings.
Not to mention disclosing the conflict of interest when speaking with unhappy franchisees from your client's competitors. Now that is really bad.
Paul Steinberg
Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400
Paul Steinberg, Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400
Sean, since May of 2007, have you done any marketing work for any coffee clients, franchisors or not?
Michael Webster PhD LLB
Franchise News
Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"
Oh my god, I admit it.
I'm working with a bunch of coffee clients. I couldn't pass up the big money.
What a great strategy. Attack a coffee company because other coffee companies would immediately want to work with me.
Get franchisor marketing work by attacking franchisors. Brilliant marketing strategy, you must admit.
seankelly@ideafarm.net
IdeaFarm, Franchise Pick
Franchisor Marketing
Actually, it is. Get a retainer from Client A and go after Competitor B. That is your job.
It is the deception which is the problem, and you know that or else you long ago would have simply noted that you are working for competitors of the company you are attacking. Yes, people would have discounted your postings accordingly. But much of what you wrote had merit irrespective of your pecuniary interest, and people would have respected you for putting your agenda on the table.
A corporate entity is one thing. But your heretofore inexplicable obsession with Robert Purvin is something else, and had people known you were working for competitors to Cuppy's, they would have taken a much different view of your obsession.
When Carol Cross publicly asks you if Bob Purvin is a threat to your livelihood, I think you can safely assume a lot of other folks have been wondering the same thing.
Paul Steinberg
Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400
Paul Steinberg, Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400
Paul:
I share your indignation. I can truly say, after reading this blog today I actually feel like I need to take a shower. I hope money never ever means that much to me
FuwaFuwaUsagi
FuwaFuwaUsagi
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers."
Don't be disillusioned, Guest.
I'm a marketing guy. We don't take any oath of office. We don't have any lawyerly ethics thing. I'm not a non profit organization. I'll work with anyone who's legit, who'll pay the big bucks and if I like them. If I really like them, they don't even have to pay big bucks.
You think I hit this subject hard, you should see how I promote a client. I'm relentless, baby.
Paul's suspicion is simply stupid. Because I'm an ethical marketing guy? Hell no. Because I'm a good marketing guy, and that's bad marketing.
Who would pay to have an insignificant company be slandered? I don't do negative marketing.
In fact, mentioning a competitor violates one of my main rules of marketing.
But I appreciate ya'll showing your true colors on a preposterous insinuation. Can't wait til you find a valid one.
seankelly@ideafarm.net
IdeaFarm, Franchise Pick
Franchisor Marketing
Once again, checking references for 'satisfaction' is the best form of investigation - assuming that you know what you're investigating.
Nick Bibby is an international franchise consultant and a program developer dedicated to excellence in entrepreneurship.
Nick Bibby founded BibbyGroup.com, an organization dedicated to franchise and entrepreneurial excellence.
Sean, now tell us what Paul says is not true?
You aren't both giving advice to Cuppy's franchisees and their competition are you?
I am sure that there is a logical explanation. Which does not cast doubt on Sean's objectivity in this matter.
Michael Webster PhD LLB
Franchise News
Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"
Michael: The sort of conduct which Sean Kelly appears to have been engaged in would result in you or me getting censured if not disbarred.
It is inexcusable.
Paul Steinberg
Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400
Paul Steinberg, Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400
I will wait for an explanation from Sean either public or private.
Michael Webster PhD LLB
Franchise News
Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"
It gets better. If you follow the links thu Sean Kelly's FranBest site , you come up with this gem:
I'm guessing that is one of the folks that paid Sean Kelly to bash the competition, but that bothers me less than the priceless endorsement of Entrepreneur magazine rankings.
Moral of the story is not simply to check out your franchisor, but check out the person recommending your franchisor.
Paul Steinberg
Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400
Paul Steinberg, Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400
What are you saying Paul?
What would result in disbarrment?
Working for The Daily Grind?
seankelly@ideafarm.net
IdeaFarm, Franchise Pick
Franchisor Marketing
You spoke in confidence with franchisees of Cuppy's coffee. They trusted you. You were working for a competitor of Cuppy's coffee.
You know that is sleazy.
You know that it is wrong.
You criticize Bob Purvin for not being able to admit he was wrong.
Well, what you did was far worse.
Paul Steinberg
Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400
Paul Steinberg, Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400
Oh, and I would add that Purvin is quite honest and open about where he gets his funding.
Where do you get your funding?
Purvin may have been a fool in the Cuppy's matter, but I'd rather be thought lacking in common sense than lacking in integrity.
Paul Steinberg
Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400
Paul Steinberg, Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400
Steinberg writes, "Purvin may have been a fool in the Cuppy's matter, but I'd rather be thought lacking in common sense than lacking in integrity."
Remind me not to have Steinberg endorse me when he's indignant.
Lucky depositors. I've never heard of an association investigating and helping to get back deposits for would-be franchise owners. NEVER. Any volunteers or paid staff at AAFD should be given a heart-felt standing applause.
In the real world, those depositors would be SOL.
Bob,
A little caution here. The 22 names need to be published along with the 4 who didn't get the deposit and their reasons why. Such claims could be bogus.
Best of luck to the others - the legions of Cuppy's franchisees-in-waiting in receiving company refunds or having their stores built-out.
These 22 may have signed agreements, but who is to say that they will receive all of their payments as agreed upon.
Also, did these agreements have 'gag' orders on them, meaning that the people receiving the refunds couldn't come out to the internet if they weren't getting paid?
The applause should be held until everyone gets their money back. Also, even though Sean may not agree with Purvin now, at the beginning of this he was proactive in telling people to contact the AAFD about their situation to see if they could help.
I saw several instances where Bob Purvin simply forwarded Cuppy's proposals, which included partial refunds and withheld franchise fees (for no good reason) and gag orders on to the franchisees without comment or counsel. I also saw him counsel franchisees not to participate in the blog discussions if they wanted to get refunds.
This idea of AAFD "mediation" in this case was pointless, because it consisted of Bob forwarding the franchisor's take-it-or-leave-it offer to a franchisee who expected some assistance or guidance. The AAFD stance against gag orders is somewhat situational, I learned.
jd is correct. I sent many of those people to the AAFD. AAFD's supposed research consisted mostly of reading the comments on Franchise Pick . I sent may of these people to Purvin and the AAFD because the AAFD name implied that they served the interest of franchisees and dealers, not franchisors they hope will "subsidize" their future involvement. I came away with the feeling that these franchise depositers held no interest, as they had little future economic value. I could be wrong, but Bob's comments here dissing the depositers and defending Morg Morgan sent that message loud and clear.
Darnelle and jd make excellent points. Let's publish the results of those "mediations" and see what portions of their own money people had returned, over what time and under what conditions,
Unless, of course, the AAFD successful mediated contracts are protected from public scrutiny by gag orders.
Sean Kelly
seankelly[at]ideafarm.net
seankelly@ideafarm.net
IdeaFarm, Franchise Pick
Franchisor Marketing
As a condition of getting accredited contract status, Cuppy's had to agree to mediate all disputes - through the AAFD- until they had an IndFA who was sufficiently happy with Cuppy's to recommend them for the Seal.
Morg agreed to this; Dale didn't implement it and so their were no AAFD mediated settlements.
This was one of the four reasons why the accreditation was suspended.
The other two were the failure to establish an IndFA and failure to establish the purchasing co-op for the franchisees benefit. These two were necessary conditions of being granted the accreditation.
The final reason was the degree of serious allegations which surfaced recently about how the build-outs were being managed.
Nobody, except for maybe Sean, works for free. So it is silly to disparage the AAFD for not working for free to provide mediation services.
Michael Webster PhD LLB
Franchise News
Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"
Nobody, except for maybe Sean, works for free.
I don't work for free. I'm on retainer with both a competitor coffee franchisor and a competitor franchise accreditator whose identities I can't reveal.
I can tell you one thing, my coffee franchisor was very disturbed by Mr. BMM's photograph. The $2.00 Snow Cone campaign looks first-rate.
Was that named after Roy?
seankelly@ideafarm.net
IdeaFarm, Franchise Pick
Franchisor Marketing
Well, it only took almost 2 years.
So, you are working for a competitor of Cuppys.
You are working for a competitor of AAFD.
And you decided to just neglect to mention those tiny facts.
By the way, I think the link you meant for the competitor of Cuppys is this page , not the joke page.
Wow.
Paul Steinberg
Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400
Paul Steinberg, Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400
1) Cuppy's Coffee does not have a current, up-to-date disclosure document, so it does not have an accredited contract. There is no Cuppy's FDD. So what, exactly, is being suspended?
2) Immediately? No. Shortly thereafter, perhaps. The sales staff kept working. Of course, there still is the matter of San Gelato, Planet Wings, and a mall kiosk franchise no one's even mentioned.
3) "Dale didn't create this mess. It didn't happen overnight and it won't be solved overnight. He's putting the foundation in place so all will be successful. Dale didn't create this mess. It didn't happen..." At least that's what the DaleBots tell me. And, yes, I am high.
4) This company is like a financial roach motel: they check in, but they don't check out. Perhaps a hundred or more people have financed its existence by giving deposits of $30K - $52K each which they are unable to get returned to them.
Danny Jones is currently dispensing agreements for repayment schedules beginning in November and some of them extending as far as 2010. I don't believe these individuals voluntarily extended interest-free ot even negative-interest loans to Cuppy's Coffee or Elite or Medina or whatever they're called this week. Hence, "involuntary investors." And no, I'm not high. Did I answer that already?
Anyone know what odds Vegas is giving on repayment of those 2010 notes?
Sean Kelly
seankelly[at]ideafarm.net
Proprietor
CuppyFarm
seankelly@ideafarm.net
IdeaFarm, Franchise Pick
Franchisor Marketing
No Sean, you are not high.
Actually, you are sly like a fox. You have spent the past year and a half blogging against Cuppys while working for their competitors and soliciting work from competitors.
Presumably, your clients are not AAFD seal recipients, and to the extent that a competitor has a sales advantage, you as a public relations/marketing consultant have been working to negate that sales advantage.
For the rest of BMM, I would note that buying a Cuppy's was and remains a truly bad idea.
For those of you who contacted Sean Kelly at my urging: I had absolutely no idea that Sean Kelly and his company had such a conflict of interest, and had I known that I would never have suggested that you share personal and business information with him.
The accuracy of Mr. Kelly's assessment of a particular franchisor is not the issue. An undisclosed conflict of interest is a big issue. We have lambasted Dale Nabors when he blogged without disclosing a pecuniary motive, but most of us were not too surprised by that. In this new revelation about Sean Kelly, I am shocked and saddened.
Paul Steinberg
Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400
Paul Steinberg, Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400
and you enter into some time payment agreement - and payment isn't made - what do you haver?
You only have a breach of contract to pay money over time claim that is dischargeable in bankruptcy.
I that the game Dale is playing? HAHAHAHAHA!!!!--
Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com, has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School
Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com, has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School
seankelly@ideafarm.net
IdeaFarm, Franchise Pick
Franchisor Marketing
This is just a ploy to compromise the suckers' position. But, since they were chumps when they bought into this crap, they may still be chumps.--
Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com, has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School
Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com, has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School
If they had no good fraud claim, and didn't sign based on Sean's advice - who works for a competitor of Cuppy's- then they just lost out.
And yes, money has exchanged hands.
And no, it is unlikely that everyone will be made whole. Unless, of course Dale is a miracle worker.
Michael Webster PhD LLB
Franchise News
Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"
Mufflerman:
I admit to being confused about this.
Could you please explain:
In regard to Cuppy's Coffee, what has the AAFD suspended?
seankelly@ideafarm.net
IdeaFarm, Franchise Pick
Franchisor Marketing
From the article above--
"Last night, the American Association of Franchisees and Dealers made the decision to suspend Cuppy's Coffee Accreditation status, awarded last year for having franchise agreements that substantially conform to AAFD's standards".
Hmm... I think that Janet Sparks wrote an article about that.
Paul Steinberg
Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400
Paul Steinberg, Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400
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