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Private Eye Insists Domino's Shares Customer Database

NEW YORK CITY (Blue MauMau) - A private eye insists that the pizza chain shares its database with law enforcement and collection agencies, despite a strongly worded denial by Domino's Pizza LLC to allegations by the private investigator on CNET News that the pizza chain shares or sells its customer database.

And he says he has proof.

Steven Rambam, the founder and CEO of Pallorium, Inc., a licensed Investigative agency, said, "I personally have seen Domino's and Papa John's databases used by law enforcement. It has nothing whatsoever to do with a theft of Domino's or something directly involving Domino's. It was a fugitive whose cell phone number was known and they plugged it in to see where the stuff was being delivered."

He went on to say, "The database is their [Domino's] own proprietary business record in which they are entitled to do whatever the heck they want with them. And they are doing something that is a public service.

He then sent the following email to elaborate:

I stand by the statement, "U.S. Marshals Service, the New York Police Department and collection agencies are using it to track people down." "It" being delivery data from pizza deliveries by Domino's and their competitors.

I have personally seen, on more than one occasion, Domino's data used to track down fugitives via determining pizza delivery address(es) that were cross-referenced with a fugitive's cell phone number. On none of those occasions did I observe that Domino's required "a subpoena from a law enforcement agency," though, perhaps, they could have been promised one, or received a National Security Letter, etc, etc. (Unlikely, in my opinion.) Within the past 30 days, I have seen "pizza delivery data" used during an investigation to confirm a residence address.

I certainly agree that Domino's does not need to "apologize" for their conduct. But frankly, if I was their public relations spokesperson, I would brag about Domino's history of assisting in taking bad folks off the streets.

I have also seen Domino's competitors — Papa John's, for example — provide similar assistance.

Regarding commercial use, Domino's may be not be "selling or giving away" their entire customer file as a bulk data dump, but I have been reliably informed that significant portions of their data, most significantly: CNA [Customer Name and Address] connected to purchasers' phone numbers, does find its way into marketing and telephone number lists. In the past, our online subsidiary has been offered large 100M and 300M record databases by data aggregators, which contained "current" pizza-delivery data, including telephone numbers, email addresses and I.P. addresses (which I assume came from web orders). Again, I see nothing wrong with that. It's the pizza sellers' data, and they can do with it whatever they want.

BTW, I have noticed that Domino's statements to the press always leave a certain amount of wiggle room. They never say that "no portion" of their customer data files — i.e. name and address c-r with telephone numbers — is ever shared or used to update or correct other marketing lists. They always comment only on sale of the entire list. Can you get a "no wiggle room" statement from them?

Steven.

(Steven Rambam, Director.)
(for: Pallorium, Inc.)

Mr. Rambam just returned from an international trip and said that he would send supporting material sometime Monday on Domino's sharing its database. He stated that the CNET article was very accurate with the exception of one slight misquote. "The correct statement is that Domino's has 'ONE OF the biggest consumer databases,' not the biggest," he said. "I am in fact aware of bigger databases and much bigger data compilers.

UPDATE, Sept 16, 2008: In regards to third-party evidence of Domino's sharing parts of its database, Mr. Steven Rambam wrote an email last week to this journal stating, "If I have time on Mon[day] I'll try to find the folder with the pizza db[database] articles." Mr. Rambam wrote today, Tuesday, "I said that I'd look for it this week. To be honest, so far I've been too swamped getting out a Declaration for a trial to do anything else."

Information pending.

--

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Update: No 3rd Party Evidence Yet for Sharing Customer Database by Don Sniegowski
Don Sniegowski's picture

UPDATE, Sept 16, 2008: In regards to third-party evidence of Domino's sharing parts of its database, Mr. Steven Rambam wrote an email last week to this journal stating, "If I have time on Mon[day] I'll try to find the folder with the pizza db[database] articles." Mr. Rambam wrote today, Tuesday, "I said that I'd look for it this week. To be honest, so far I've been too swamped getting out a Declaration for a trial to do anything else."

Information pending.

I'd be interested in... by FuwaFuwaUsagi
FuwaFuwaUsagi's picture
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It was posted:

In regards to third-party evidence of Domino's sharing parts of its database, Mr. Steven Rambam wrote an email last week to this journal stating, "If I have time on Mon[day] I'll try to find the folder with the pizza db[database] articles." Mr. Rambam wrote today, Tuesday, "I said that I'd look for it this week. To be honest, so far I've been too swamped getting out a Declaration for a trial to do anything else."

My reply:

I would be interested in what leagal remedy would exist if Dominos claimed it did not share customer data with third parties and then did.  Take the Governemnt out of it,let's say Domios public statemnt is they do nto share customer data and then they sold their list to a third party.  I am trying to imagine what possible legal remedy would exist.   I cannot understand how damages other then stree could be used to make a case for restittution.

I am not a lawyer nor do I pertend to be, so I would apprecaite hearing fomr the legal minds in this forum.   The point I am trying to make is that a cmpany may pronounce whatever they wish publically, outside of sme customer fallout I want to understand what are the possible sanctions if they later change their mind.

The ever inquisitive little ol' me.

FuwaFuwaUsagi

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers." 

Privacy Damages by michael webster
michael webster's picture

Fuwa writes: " I cannot understand how damages other then stree could be used to make a case for restittution"

I think the appropriate analogy is to the damages for libel/slander. It is difficult to quantify the measure of damages for hurt feelings, loss of reputation, and humiliation.  

But we do it in trial all the time. 

Loss of privacy is similar.  We expect to operate in a world free from excessive scrutiny, oversight and the like.  Each situation will be different, but the loss of privacy is, in my opinion, similar to the loss of reputation.

Both losses bring about a lower standing in the social world, which cannot adequately be measured by money damages but that is how we do it nonetheless.

Certain losses of privacy do have consequential damages, such as the costs to credit, etc.  But I would not make consequential damages the driver here. 

Michael Webster PhD LLB
Franchise News


Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"


Normal 0 by FuwaFuwaUsagi
FuwaFuwaUsagi's picture
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Michael:

I always appreciate that you take time to respond to my inquiries

There was a Supreme court case in the U.S. in 1974 or 1975 to the effect of ? vs Miller (I think).   As I recall the central point of the ruling was that you have no right to privacy if you use a bank or bank instrument such as a credit card.   It has been a long time since I reviewed this (back in college) but I mention it because it appears the underlying principle of your position seems to an implicit right to privacy, and in the U.S I believe it was declared you have no right to privacy when you use a credit card.

Then again I could be wrong.  I has been decades since I reviewed the decision.

FuwaFuwaUsagi

FuwaFuwaUsagi

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers." 

CNA= Customer Name and Address by Guest
CNA = Customer Name and Address, not "cell phone".
CNA by Guest
Probably the writer's interpretation, not Rambam's.
Correction of CNA by Don Sniegowski
Don Sniegowski's picture
Writer's note: Yes. That was me trying to clarify the term CNA in brackets for our readers -- and obviously botching the job by writing cell phone, name and address. I had the term cell phone on my mind from an earlier conversation on how valuable listings of cell phone numbers are. At any rate, I've edited the explanation to now read "Customer Name and Address" so that readers do not have to read editor's comments at the bottom of the article or catch the right comment to learn of the mistake. My apologies. Just for fun, here are some other possibilities that CNA could stand for, although most would not fit the database topic. Change of Name and Address would also fit. Customer network address would be a stretch but possible. CNA Certified Novell Administrator CNA Certified Nursing Assistant CNA California Nurses Association CNA Canadian Nanobusiness Alliance CNA Canadian National Anthem CNA Canadian Naturopathic Association CNA Canadian Newspaper Association CNA Canadian Nuclear Association CNA Canadian Numbering Administrator CNA Canadian Numismatic Association CNA Canadian Nurses Association CNA Carrington Neighborhood Association (Waldorf, Maryland) CNA Caspian News Agency CNA Center for Naval Analyses CNA Center for Nursing Advocacy, Inc (Baltimore, Maryland) CNA Central News Agency CNA Central News Agency (Taiwan) CNA Centralized Network Administration (AMP) CNA Centre National des Arts (National Arts Centre - Canada) CNA Centro Nacional de las Artes (Mexico) CNA Certified in Nursing Administration CNA Certified NetWare Administrator CNA Certified Network Administrator CNA Certified Nurse's Aid CNA Certified Nursing Associate CNA Change of Name and Address CNA Channel News Asia CNA Chicago Nurses Association CNA Chief Naval Architect CNA Child Nutrition Act of 1966 CNA Chin National Army CNA Cisco Networking Academy CNA Coal and Allied CNA Code Not Allocated CNA Collective Negotiation Agreement CNA Colorado Nurses' Association CNA Comisión Nacional del Agua (México) CNA Commander's Narrative Analysis CNA Communication Network Architecture CNA Computer Network Administrator (education) CNA Computer Network Attack CNA Confederação Nacional da Agricultura (Portugese: National Agriculture Confederation) CNA Confederación Nacional Agronómica (Mexico) CNA Conference Notification Announcement CNA Connecticut Nurses' Association CNA Consejo Nacional de Adopciones (Guatemala) CNA Consejo Nacional de la Alimentacion (Spanish) CNA Conventional Nuclear Arms (Military WMD) CNA Converged Network Adapter CNA Convertisseur Numérique Analogique (French: Analogical Digitizer) CNA Cornea Plana CNA Counter Narcotics Alliance (Arizona) CNA Customer Name and Address CNA Customer Needs Analysis CNA Customer Network Address CNA Cyprus News Agency CNA Certified Netware Associate CNA Cisco Network Assistance CNA Connecting Network Access I'll double check with Mr. Rambam.
Data Will Be Mined by FuwaFuwaUsagi
FuwaFuwaUsagi's picture

Anyone who believes that data in the hands of private entities will not be mined is simply not aware of the facts.  The Fed is already using credit card a loyalty card data to determine patterns of behavior via 3rd party companies.  The Government simply purchases the results from the 3rd party company; those results are also available for resale on the open market.

To make this clear, your only salvation lay in alternative identities or utilizing cash where possible.  

FuwaFuwaUsagi

FuwaFuwaUsagi

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers." 

Data Mining by michael webster
michael webster's picture

In general, I have no problem with data mining.  Because I don't believe that I have any privileged access to my preferences - good for clever companies pointing out what I really do prefer.  Bad for me if I cannot tell if I am being conned.

The IndFA's have to step up here and assert their co-ownership rights to the aggregate customer data, however. 

Michael Webster PhD LLB
Franchise News


Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"


Fuwa, Webster wrong by Paul Steinberg
Paul Steinberg's picture

Maybe I am indicating my age, but I do have a problem with calling Domino's for a pepperoni pie and then getting calls on my cell phone from telemarketers and bill collectors.

Moreover, while a PI may give an ostensible reason for accessing the database, that is not necessarily the real reason. And if either Fuwa or Webster believe that cops always are truthful to prospective sources and are acting with any greater degree of integrity than other people, I've got a quitclaim deed for the Brooklyn Bridge--real cheap.

Most importantly is that Domino's has a very specific privacy policy on their website and their spokesman made a very explicit statement.

It would appear that Domino's lies on their website and that their spokesman lied.

Steven Rambam is lying or Tim McIntyre is lying. They cannot both be telling the truth.

Now, I am not so naive as to believe that franchisor spokesmen tell the truth (ahem, Steven Caldeira), but I am a bit bothered that members of the public (especially an attorney) are singularly unconcerned and even think that this is "clever."

Paul Steinberg
Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400


Paul Steinberg, Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400
"data" is not "database" by Guest
Or Domino's is just being clever. If they sell portions of their database, for example name-address-number, but not the entire database, then they're technically telling the truth. Very little of Domino's data is unique. Your name, address and telephone or cell phone are already in dozens of databases.
Read The Privacy Policy by Guest
Domino's website states "Domino's may also disclose personally identifiable information about you in connection with legal requirements, such as in response to an authorized subpoena, governmental request or investigation, or as otherwise permitted by law." Note "governmental request or investigation". A subpoena is NOT required in every case. Their spokesman was fudging. Domino's helps law enforcement track down fugitives. Seems like a good thing to me.
Normal 0 by FuwaFuwaUsagi
FuwaFuwaUsagi's picture
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Paul:

???  Do you have me confused with someone else?   All Police truthful - LOL, you have to be kidding.  I trust no form of Government at all.  As for the rest, like I said you must have me confused.  I protect my privacy and go to draconian measures to do so.   

FuwaFuwaUsagi

FuwaFuwaUsagi

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers." 

Being a Number by michael webster
michael webster's picture

Paul, I don't want anyone to have my cell number unless I give it to them personally.

But I do want know what number I am, somebody with a tendency x to buy after buying y.

Data mining can be done without violating privacy concerns. 

Michael Webster PhD LLB

Franchise News


Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"


Domino's database by Paul Steinberg
Paul Steinberg's picture

Sun Microsystems' CEO famously said "You have zero privacy...get over it ."

That was almost a decade ago, when there were still concerns about the ability of technology to circumvent restrictions on government intrusions into privacy. Indeed, no one even knows how widespread this is, and there was some attempt to force government agencies to disclose their use of private databases.

Just as with the Domino's database, the concern was with the government using private databases which had been compiled for a non-investigatory purpose. In the case of Domino's there is no expectation that your local pizza shop is selling your data.

In the case of government use of databases, there are other factors such as FCRA considerations and back when people still cared about these things (way back in the ancient times circa 2002) there was a debate as to whether the FBI could pay for and collect information from a private entity (in this case, ChoicePoint ) which it would not be able to collect directly without violating the Privacy Act.

Fuwa is of the Scott McNealy school of thought, a cynical recognition that it is too late to put the genie back in the bottle.

Webster's observation, while valid, misses the point: the issue is not data mining by Dominos to sell more product to the customers which provided the data to Dominos (that is already covered by Domino's privacy policy) but rather Domino's apparent violation of an explicit written privacy policy posted on their website for consumers considering doing business with Dominos.

And permitting IndFAs access to the data doesn't make the problem better, it makes it worse.

Domino's Pizza should take down that bogus "Privacy" policy and replace it with the Scott McNealy quote. At least be honest about it.

Paul Steinberg
Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400


Paul Steinberg, Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400
Paul writes: Fuwa is of the by FuwaFuwaUsagi
FuwaFuwaUsagi's picture

Paul writes:

Fuwa is of the Scott McNealy school of thought, a cynical recognition that it is too late to put the genie back in the bottle. 

My reply:

It is not too late, it is more that as a society we lack the collective will to force the issue.   However the individual has some recourse and a level of control they can exert.

FuwaFuwaUsagi

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers." 

FuwaFuwaUsagi

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers." 

Privacy Policy by michael webster
michael webster's picture

Sorry, I should I have said that I agreed with you about the violation of the written privacy policy before I talked about data mining. 

Michael Webster PhD LLB
Franchise News


Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"


Yes they do! by Guest
I worked for a major bank in the collections department about seven years ago and at that time I spoke with a skip tracer who told me that Dominos provides information - not sure if it is access to their databases or how they share - to help skiptracers! I was amazed when I heard it! Not sure if they still do it, but again, seven years ago, it was being done according to the skip tracers.
Ridiculous by Guest
I work for a franchise office of 28 Papa John's locations in a major DMA. In my 11 years with the company, we have never "shared" our customer information with law enforcement or creditors. This might be one of the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I have had law enforcement call on me for information related to a robbery of one of my own employees. Creditors who call me do not get any information, let alone have access to my customer files. I used to work for Dominos for 8 years before working for PJ and my franchise never shared customer information. Ridiculous!
Your information is being by H20Man

Your information is being transmitted to the franchisor.

I suspect they aren't contacting LOCAL offices, they are contacting the MAIN office.

Franchisees and field workers would be clueless as to what the main office does. 

Domino's Statement Consistent with Last Year's Statement by Juan F
Juan F's picture

Anything is possible BUT I'm not finding any corroborating results in my Google search for Domino's sharing its customer database.

Anyone find anything?

I'm finding consistencies with what Domino's states about not sharing its dbase. Here's a statement from Domino's printed in a Washington Post article, January 2007:

Domino's, which hopes to have a national database of customers soon, says it does not share or sell customer information. But companies that specialize in providing unlisted and cellphone numbers, among other records, often buy phone numbers from pizza delivery services, according to Merlin Information Services, a data broker. 

I did find a British Columbia story from 2006 of a dumb Domino's franchise throwing customer receipts in the dumpster in back.

So what? by Guest
Domino's shares their data to help track down deadbeats and felons? Good! Domino's sells some customer data to marketers? Perfectly normal. Let's move on, people.
Normal 0 by FuwaFuwaUsagi
FuwaFuwaUsagi's picture
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Just out of curiosity how do you feel about the idea that your grocery store sells your loyalty card info to your insurance company, or your drug store does the same and your life insurer or health insurer noticed you buy condoms and KY frequently, and decides your may be homosexual so it considers you at risk and drops your coverage, or how about if your auto company determines you buy cigarettes at the gas station, via your credit card, and increases your rates because they feel you will be driving distracted, or your health insurance company sees you buy a lot of Doritos, few fruits, and a lot of red meat so they increase your premiums? 

Or what do you think of the idea that your health insurance companies notices your wife has not been taking the pill lately correlates this with her age of 42 and decides to drop your health insurance coverage because you may conceive an at risk baby?

FuwaFuwaUsagi

FuwaFuwaUsagi

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers." 

Loyalty cards by Guest
If a consumer wants the benefits of a loyalty card (free stuff) then typically they have to trade a bit of their privacy. That sucks, but that's the way it works. Don't like it? Then don't use a frequent buyer card. I certainly don't.
Fuwa by Guest
In general, however, I agree with everything that Fuwa said.
Normal, or Not by michael webster
michael webster's picture
Fuwa, is it the selling of the data or the lack of an effective scheme to object to the decisions based on the selling of the data that you object to?

Michael Webster PhD LLB
Franchise News


Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"


Michael writes: Fuwa, is it by FuwaFuwaUsagi
FuwaFuwaUsagi's picture

Michael writes:

Fuwa, is it the selling of the data or the lack of an effective scheme to object to the decisions based on the selling of the data that you object to?

My reply

To the best of my knowledge I have not stated nor revealed an opinon on the topic.   I have one, but what I think is irrelevant.  I just thought like so ,much of what we do on this list, people should be aware of the implication of agreements they enter into.  

FuwaFuwaUsagi

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers." 

FuwaFuwaUsagi

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers." 

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