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Class Action Lawsuit against Quiznos Turned Down

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Alfred A Arraj Federal Courthouse, District of Colorado. Photo/GSA

DENVER – The U.S. District Court for the District of Colorado ruled on Monday that a group of Quiznos franchisees cannot collectively participate in a class action lawsuit because their signed franchise agreement specifically bars them from doing so.

Eighteen budding franchise owners banded together in a class action lawsuit, alleging that they participated in a quasi-Ponzi scheme in which they deposited between $20,000 and $25,000 each for a Quiznos sub shop, but then were not given permission to open a location.

The franchise contract declares that franchisees must open a store within a year or else they lose both that right and their money. But franchisees cannot set up shop until Quiznos approves their site, and Quiznos has been slow to do so. In the lawsuit, attorneys claim that their 18 clients are a drop in the bucket of the 3,200 franchises that have been sold but not opened. 

The chain has an estimated 4,000 plus stores that are open for business.

Before the court is able to look into charges of fraud and Ponzi schemes, the court first must look at the procedural issue of whether Quiznos franchisee plaintiffs had the right to come together to sue their franchisor in a class-action lawsuit when their franchise contract specifically bars class action. The court reasoned that the only way to nullify what two adults sign in a contract is to ask, “Is the class action bar unconscionable under the law?”

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Court order denying class action

The franchisees in the lawsuit grouped together presumably because such franchise lawsuits can individually cost $80,000 or more in legal fees, with a possibility, not a guarantee, of winning and recovering the money the individual has lost. But some franchisees balk at the thought of spending $80,000 to perhaps recover only $25,000 in deposit money. 

Justin Klein of law firm Marks & Klein LLP, attorney for the franchisees, takes exception to the ruling. “The Quiznos franchise agreement says that franchisees have to sue Quiznos one on one,” he explains. “The purpose of our seeking a class action is because it is too expensive to sue Quiznos. It could cost hundreds of thousands of dollars for the individual to sue Quiznos in order to recover their initial franchise fee, which in some cases is $20k - $25k.”

In an attempt to persuade the judge that a class-action lawsuit was the only fair solution open to depositors despite the banning of it in the contract, the franchisee attorneys showed affidavits of a number of attorneys who would not take such a case because of the small amount of money that its individual victims would pay. 

But the judge disagreed and responded that not only is there a possibility that the franchisee may recover more, but that individually these type of lawsuits are also not cost prohibitive. The judge declared, “Proud attorneys notwithstanding [for not humbling themselves to take low fee cases], the court cannot say that a franchisee who stands to recover $60,000 to $75,000 plus attorney’s fees will be left wanting for competent legal representation. Moreover, an individual case would not require a large up-front investment of resources.”

At the heart of the procedural argument was why did the franchise owner sign a clause that barred him from legal action and why does he want to undo it now? The court used a Colorado law benchmark, the "Davis Factors" (see page 50 of court order, pdf), to weigh whether the agreement barring class-action lawsuits, signed by two willing parties at the time, is “unconscionable” and thus void.

Judge Christine Arguello explained that from the standpoint of the Davis rule, “under Colorado law, a take-it-or-leave-it contract does not automatically render the agreement unconscionable.” The court goes on to say, “Plaintiffs were not faced with the Faustian decision of terminating their pre-existing contract or accepting a newly-added class action bar they did not want.” She adds, “They were free to purchase a different franchise or invest their money elsewhere without any financial repercussions to themselves or Quiznos.”

Another issue was whether or not the clause was written in so small a fine print as to reasonably escape notice by the agreement signer. Once again the court declared, “The provision containing the class action bar is written in the same typeface, using the same font size as the remainder of the franchise agreement.” The court then added that between adults, “With certain exceptions, courts should not be in the business of telling parties how to style their contracts and this case is no exception. Therefore, this factor also favors enforcement of the class action bar.”

Judge Arguello concluded that the contract wasn’t unconscionable according to Colorado law and so the bar on class action held,  therefore there would be no court hearing on the case.

Klein and his franchisee clients are disappointed. He says of the verdict, “I think that the agreement is unconscionable and that the class-action prohibition renders franchisees without a meaningful way to vindicate their rights.”

In regard to the judge’s ruling that dismisses the scheduled trial, a spokesperson for Quiznos told Blue MauMau, "For all parties involved, litigation is a long and tedious process. This ruling allows us to further focus our time and resources on what is most important — continually improving our core business, increasing franchise owner profitability and providing a quality product at an outstanding value to consumers."

Klein states that the franchisees are not done. “We will continue to pursue whatever course of action that we have to in seeking a class action of the 3300 people who have been damaged by Quiznos,” he says. “If it means that Quiznos has 3300 individual lawsuits, then that is what it will get.”

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Was It The Class Action? by Guest
More bad news for Quiznos. (p)Rick Schaden has layed off every FBL - or area co-ordinator - in the system. Inquiring franchisees would like to know whether this decision was based on the class action in Canada. Will there be anything left when franchisees finally break Schaden's death grip on the system? Just how cash strapped is Q? Is the company in as much trouble as we believe it is? Another lesson for those looking to invest in a franchise system. If Quiznos was public we would have those answers. Since it's privately held (p)Rick holds all the cards and doesn't need to show any so we're left in the dark. As for the FBL's I have no sympathy for any of them. They will now face the same fears and realities that franchisees have faced for years: no salary and drained savings; as well as the threats of foreclosure and bankruptcy. What goes around comes around and from where I stand it's well deserved.
A qustion about buying a Q Franchise: by Granville_Bean
Are people running a projected P&L before they buy? Where are they falling short? Sales projection, food cost projection, labor projection, what? For example I talked to the daughter of the Zee who was working the counter at our local Q (which was set to close in a couple of weeks, the actual Zee was working a factory job many miles away to make ends meet). She was saying "well my Dad talked to the guy who has the Q in ______ (next nearest Q) and he said he did okay". So THAT was the basis on which they bought it?? Of course she wasn't the actual Zee, so maybe there was more to it, but I'm just wondering where is it that the Q stores are falling short. Surely you can find out going in what the expected base food costs are, based on the recipes and the existing food prices. Obviously projected sales are always a potential for variance. So is that where it's at? Or are people really just going in on wishful thinking "gee I wanna be my own boss and I hear these do okay"? Naw, it can't be THAT bad, can it? Inquiring minds wanna kno.
Beany by Barbara Jorgensen
Barbara Jorgensen's picture

You obviously are a seasoned businessman. The target of many bad zors are unsavvy business people, immigrants, vets and coporate dropouts. I believe the rogue zors start with people with money and assets with every intention of building their empire. They lead them to bankruptcy so they will not to sue them.

 Our zor told many of us that we don't need any business experience.  All you need is to follow their system. When you listen to them, thinking you are following their system it is  bad advice.  it doesn't take long before you realize they are not honorable. This is taking advantage of people who really want to be self sufficient.

You can put people down for not having the knowledge you do but zors are not suppose to lie and they do and are getting really good at it.

 If I did what our zor did as a realtor I would loose my license and get heavily fined and possible jail time.

 The securities department here in Washington states zors and their salespeople are not suppose to lie period. If the rogue zors were honorable they would give good advice but they don't. It is wiser for people to not go into business unless they have education behind them like you do.   

Fanchising is not  safer than going on your own.  And yes Beany it is that bad.

Re: Class Action Lawsuit against Quiznos Turned Down by Guest
It's all such a silly waste of money. I'm sure whatever it cost to defend this lawsuit, Quizno's could have easily put back into their own system by hiring additional real estate staff and making resources available to actually get those stores open so it makes the franchisee's happy, starts getting royalties paid to Quizno's, gets advertising dollars over the airwaves and benefits the brand. When are these knuckleheads going to recognize that the enemy is Subway or the other sandwich concepts and not the franchisee/franchisor? The franchisor and franchisee are supposed to be business partners and become unified to beat up the competition, not each other. Lame!
Franchisor and Franchisee are suppose to be business partners? by Barbara Jorgensen
Barbara Jorgensen's picture

Zee's go into franchising thinking they are business partners with the zor.  Before you sign the agreement the zor implies this.  The FDD does not tell us it is a partnership.  It is a unilateral contract.  The bad zor's act nice before you sign than afterwards they show their true colors. The FDD is misleading in many ways. 

Even if you are a success they will figure a way to get you out. Encroachment is one way to ruin your business.  Q has been doing this for years. 

I believe many people will be using Quiznos as an example for future zee wannabees.  Their business practices reveals the mind of people who don't have values and they have the mind that destroys and ruins people's lives.  

A Setback For The Qtards by Guest
Because the enemy IS (p)Rick, not Subway. The only way Q franchisees will be profitable is with Schaden out of the picture and preferably in jail. And by the way, the Canadian courts have certified the lawsuit filed by Canadian franchisees. Since Schaden wasn't able to buy a judge in Canada the playing field will be level and when those Q documents hit the light of day (p)Rick and the qtards will be headed for the lifeboats.
Re: A Setback For The Qtards by maddog
The Canadian class action was also denied by the courts last year, and now it got certified. The same scenario will play out in the US - the number of SNO's (sold not opened) is far greater.
Ontario Class Action by michael webster
michael webster's picture

The Ontario Class Action was never heard on its merits.

Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"


Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"


Merits by Guest
Aren't class action lawsuits here to give the common man the ability to take on large corporations and have a chance of redressing the wrong done by them? If we are ever to have our case heard on the "merits" we need a class action to do it! The strong arm tactics have kept any individual from any chance of not only getting but presenting them. *judgemet rendured through analysis and adjudication ofthe factual issues presented.
Class actions are not for the vindication of the common man. by RichardSolomon
RichardSolomon's picture
If they were they would almost all be denied certification, as the end result is usually that the lawyers take almost everything and the plaintiffs get pittances - hardly vindication. Class actions are supposedly to facilitate efficient resolution of mass similar claims in one action - an efficient use of judicial resources device - nothing more.

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Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School


Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School
Richard what if we get more? by Guest
What if besides the pittance we got something else? What if because of a class action a zor was forced to stop illegal price fixing/maintenance? Wouldn't that alone put a substantial amount of money in the zees pocket? I'll take some of that please.....
I would like more by Ray Borradale
Ray Borradale's picture

Selfishly I would like to see more of any type of action against abusive zor behaviour.  It sends a message and educates other zors as well.

The cost and the pittance is one thing though - zees usually cannot afford to lose.  But many have nothing much to lose anyway.  The dilemma varies - sounds like people need better advice than I could offer.

Getting 'good' legal advice

www.nicholsoncartoons.com.au

The more things change; the more they stay the same.

You can't get a contingent percentage of an injunction mandating by RichardSolomon
RichardSolomon's picture
behavior. Class actions are always on contingencies - sometimes with some front end costs paid in. Franchisees won't pay lawyers to sue for injunctions to change behavior. Nor should they. They can change behavior themselves through militant association action. But they lack the guts to do that too. None of the Quiznos and other abuses would have succeeded had the franchisees had guts and resisted as a cohesive unit. No matter what any contract says, no franchisor can take adamant refusal from the entire franchisee population. In the end the contract is just a road to revenue. If all the franchisees refuse to cooperate in their being abused, the franchisor can't get away with it. Why do you think we tout aggresive, militant independent franchisee associations? THEY WORK! THAT'S WHY!

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Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School


Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School
No Guts - No Smarts by Ray Borradale
Ray Borradale's picture

If a child steals a dollar and gets away with it he/she will steal again. Rogue zors are the same.  Zees who insist on hiding out are in denial or they just don't have the guts or the smarts to see the inevitable.

There should be more agressive associations; there should be many more agressive associations. You are absolutley right; no zor has an alternative to full scale refusal other than to find a workable solution that satisfies franchisees while allowing for their investment with a successful franchisor to be protected.

The more things change; the more they stay the same.

Benefit of class action by Guest
Keeps incompetent lawyers off welfare!
Judge Christine Arguello ....... by maddog
..... should have excused herself from this case from the getgo. She has too many ties to businesses and entities where Rick Schaden is a major contributor. When all the facts surface, her decision is sure to be over turned upon appeal. Can anyone shout "conflict of interest"! Read the following links for all the information ..... http://www.arapahoehouse.org/AHIMAGES/AHAnnualReport2006.pdf 2006, page 3: officers (arguello) page 15: volunteers (schadens) http://www.colorado.edu/news/releases/2007/359.html david getches, dean, recognizes arguello http://www.colorado.edu/news/r/10691fe10e2fca1a7e57cb26cd20e7ef.html schaden's endowment, david getches, dean
I have talked to people from Denver by Barbara Jorgensen
Barbara Jorgensen's picture
Rick is known as a mover and shaker.  People look up to him.  Denver is not a neutral place for a trial.  They have contributed lots of money to education and the homeless.  (All blood money.)  I am sure they know arbitrators and judges since they are very wealthy.  Having a trial in Denver, forget about it.  All people see is the charities they have given to.  They don't know all the people they have hurt.  5 million to the University of Colorado.  Million and half to the homeless.  How many people have they made it impossible for them to help their own children finish college or go to college?  How many people have lost their retirement, homes because of their bad business practices?  People write your stories.  Show the world who they are.   
Nothing Has Changed by Guest
Good news for Quiznos, bad news for screwed franchisees. Par for the course.
(p)Rick Waiting Out The Franchisees by Guest
Soon there won't be enough Q's for any kind of a class action! 4165 open restaurants and falling as of 4-25-09
Bad news being par for the course is the product of by RichardSolomon
RichardSolomon's picture
people being held to comply with the terms of agreements they signed while they were assumed to be grown ups. I've been telling people for years that courts are tired of people who sign agreements wanting out of their terms later on. Franchisees who find they are held to account for their agreements want to be treated as retarded children and let out of business deals they find they don't like and wish they hadn't signed. It doesn't work that way. Bad people get their contracts enforced just like good people - whoever those folks may be. The law does not protect you from your own mistakes. The only real protection against bad franchises is for you to buy killer pre investment due diligence to reduce the critical risks. If you don't pay for that, you will probably pay much more down the road when you learn that what you signed isn't what you thought you signed. People who get legal analysis of contracts but don't get the whole job done because the deal AND the contract are not vetted together as a whole project, find later that there is no cure for the consequences of signing while an adult. There's no free lunch and there's no way to get the government to make franchisees a special class of stupid people for whom extraordinary legal protection has to be provided. Of course, you will never stop blaming others for the consequences of your own stupidity, right?

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Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School


Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School
Q Franchisees Should Let It Go by Guest
As a former franchisee I would look at the lost $25,000 and thank God. To ONLY lose $25,000 after signing a franchise agreement with that group of rabble is a best case scenario for thousands of current and former franchisees. Look at it as money well spent - a year of learning at a good business college. Afterall, you've learned every dirty trick in the book dealing with (p)Rick and Dick Schaden. You'll never make the same mistake again. Best case scenario you spend thousands on Justin Klein and a lot of your valuable time to get your $25,000 back. Worse case? Colorado justice. A crazy state judge who owes his/her judgeship to (p)Rick will tell you that you have "won" and will order Quiznos to find you a location and open your restaurant.
Letting it go by RichardSolomon
RichardSolomon's picture
You don't appreciate the profile of business contingent fee situations. They are not made up of $ 50,000 lawsuits done one at a time. It costs more than that just for the out of pocket expenses - witness testimony transcipts, travel, expert witness fees (like for damages evidence - more than just admitting tax returns), overhead costs for support personnel, litigation support, and much more. In addition to that, there are many reasons why Qtardees don't let go. Some are making money. Some are not making real money but are paying off the debts from operations. Some are just neurotic about it and feel they have to get even - whatever that may mean. Franchisees who say they are broke are often not broke. They mean they are not making what they expected to make, and are simply overstating their position for the sake of argument. Some fear bankruptcy and violating their own values regarding obligations to repay loans and their standing in their own families and amongst others they love or whose respect they enjoy. The reasons are endless.

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Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School


Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School
You go, lawyer, by Guest
and maybe someday a job will come in. Meanwhile, FranCorp is searching hard for an in house peron.
The Domino Effect? by Guest
Rich, please comment on this... Could the group of franchisees cough up the cash to push one case through the Denver courts and establish a precedence? Then the remaining litigants could follow one at a time and each request a judgement based on the precedent. Afterwards the franchisees could recover the costs for the initial case. The attorney fees alone on 3200 cases would destroy Quiznos and serve as a warning for contracts that write out class action suits.
Q losing a case would be precedential for other identical cases, by RichardSolomon
RichardSolomon's picture
mutuality in the first case no longer being required in the second identical case. The main facts proved in the first case would help the subsequent plaintiffs in subsequent identical claims. However, if the fees alone would bankrupt Q, there would be no incentive to bring the later cases. Franchisees wouldn't pay lawyers to bring them, and lawyers wouldn't take them on contingent fee arrangrements. The Colorado court almost certainly won't be reversed, but the better argument is that the class action would be a better method to redress the situation, even if the actual franchisees received very little in the long run. At least the Q case would stand as a lesson for future miscreant franchisors. But that doesn't speak to the fact that the contract says what it says and the franchisees were not coerced to sign up. Courts look for ways not to have to deal with cases. They are supposed to do that. Enforcing contracts according to their clear terms is generally accepted as standard good law in almost every situation. Exceptions include covenant not to compete cases, forfeitures and liquidated damages clauses that are in reality nothing but intimidation devices.

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Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School


Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School
Isn't the no class action clause intimidation of a sort as well? by Guest
"Exceptions include covenant not to compete cases, forfeitures and liquidated damages clauses that are in reality nothing but intimidation devices"
I think that clause would fit in the same category ethically if not legally. Of course, I signed a franchise agreement that I objected to, after being assured by the area franchisee that all those words were in there to protect them against the worst bad actors and not used to take advantage of anyone. This coupled with my spouse's insistence that we needed the brand and that if they only had 30 lawsuits in 10 years they couldn't be that bad overcame my reluctance. Would I do it again? - No! I was a reasonably intelligent person who wanted to trust others. Love is blind, reality is an eyeopener, but renewal or termination destroys all illusions. Actually my franchise agreement does not have the class action clause, I feel for those quizo's zees. I hope that they do push through one case to a successful conclusion and then use precedent, collateral estoppel or whatever the correct terminology to put the rest of the cases in the express lane. I do understand where you are coming from as to the strictly legal standpoint. I do not believe you have ever walked in the shoes of the zee. Many of us come from corporate environments where there were veiled threats and rules that were winked at. Thus, it is not too hard for us to believe that the zor really will use good business judgement and work with us as stakeholders in mutual success, not as enemies or weaklings to be exploited. Too late, we find our trust has been misplaced.
you signed WHAT??? by Granville_Bean
This latest Guest said:
"Of course, I signed a franchise agreement that I objected to, after being assured by the area franchisee..."
Hoo boy. Parol (NOT parole, parol) eveidence rule and all that. Can't rely on an (alleged) oral representation to change the clear terms of a written contract. And you still signed? Because you used to work for a corporation? What did you do for them, do as you were told? Yet another example of how working for a big company doesn't qualify anyone to be a small business owner in a different industry. Or any at all. Folks, folks: the Zor is not your employer. You work for yourself in your own business. The Zor is someone who, like a commercial landlord, you pay a percentage to. You rent their trademark and one hopes some systems. You have a contract in front of you, and then you ignore what it says because you "trusted"? Just don't cash in your 401K for this.
Then why do they have so much control? by Barbara Jorgensen
Barbara Jorgensen's picture

From the beginning you do what they tell you because your suppose to follow their system.  They are the experts?  Then you realize they have led you into a desperate situation.  If you fail they say you didn't follow their system.  They should not a have anything to do with the build out or anything we spend.  Their start up cost is twice as much.  Their advertising is gouging people.  Everything in the business is gouging the zee. 

Greenfield haven't you read anything people have been writing?  You sound like a shill for some rogue zor. 

This is how scammers work.  Promise to be there, for what?  Make sure you loose all you worked for.  Yes you signed the agreement.  But what made people sign?  Misrepresentations, promising to give you support when all along their just waiting for you to close.  If what you say is true, why buy a franchise?   

In the UFOC they say you are independent contractors.  Being a independent contractor as a realtor my broker does not have the power to say you have to buy a car from the company that is marked up 50%.  He does not have the power to have me buy uniforms or clothes from the company of his choice.  He does not have the power to tell me when my working hours will be.  Independent contractor is put in FDD's because we invested money into a business.  There is too much control a zor has over the zee during the duration of the relationship with the rogue zor.  Indepentent contractor is debatable.  

don't YOU read what's posted??? by Granville_Bean
Do Dil said: "Greenfield haven't you read anything people have been writing? You sound like a shill for some rogue zor."
Yo dude, for the past coupla days I have had an article in the News section (admittedly it is at the bottom of the page, LOL). Where I tell people NOT to buy a franchise in a hurry, NOT (if possible) to pay big fees before having a location, NOT to rush into a business with only a few days or even a few weeks in that industry... How IS that shilling for a scam Zor? Jeez people, DON'T SIGN BAD CONTRACTS. And please, please when you are laid off DON'T cash in your 401(k) to give it to a Zor!!!!
Beany by Barbara Jorgensen
Barbara Jorgensen's picture

Chill.  If we are on the same side let's not carry on.

I just saw on Komo News channel 4 in Seattle a con man.  He said the biggest line scammers use is, "Be Your Own Boss! Own You Own Business! Have a Home Based Business!"  He says during hard times con men work harder because the pickings is ripe. 

Beany, there is such a thing of misrepresentations and there are the smartest people who get scammed.  Don't make all burnt zees look stupid.  Think about what I am saying because you make former zees sound stupid.      

Scam Zors by Granville_Bean
There surely are scam or at least pipe dream Zors. The made for franchising "concept" is bogus from the start. Serial franchisors think up "concept" after "concept" to try out on people. They might have ONE location that's only operated for a matter of months, and they use that to sel, sell, sell. It's backasswards. People need to be careful, careful, careful. Due diligence (alone) is NOT ENOUGH!!!! The people still have to RUN THE BUSINESS. The story STARTS (not ends) the day they buy the franchise. Desparate people do dumb things and I am just so worried about the newly unemployed rushing into bad franchises (with Zor salespeople knowing just what buttons to push). We have been Zees for years (clarification: my wife is the actual Zee, I am the Finance Director for our company). One of our vendors once said to us "I can't believe the number of things you have to be good at". The industry is highly, HIGHLY competitive and profit margins are razor thin. My wife was a General Manager for Corporate (the Zor) for years before she was a Zee. She knew Operations inside & out. We have a salaried General Manager plus a salaried First Assistant for each store, plus we have a salaried Operations Supervisor at our headquarters level who assists my wife on managing Operations. Anybody who is an employee at some corporate job elsewhere, if you decide to become a Zee in a competing brand in our industry, you will be competing with US. Years, YEARS of experience & training, an established team, that is who your brand is facing off against. No "concept" is so good as to outweigh execution. Will a couple of days behind the counter, or a two week training, really equip you to compete with teams like us? It isn't as simple as the bubble Zors would like you to believe. If it was a saimple as follow the cookbook, then why isn't EVERYONE a Zee and why aren't we ALL rich? Yes there are bubble Zors selling made-for-franchising "concepts". Please please don't buy into a concept without a major record of success for a period of YEARS. Know something of the industry you are getting into (besides what the Zor tells you). I feel sorry for people, but people are buying unrealistic crap that the bubble Zors are shoveling out. Scammers need victims or it wouldn't be worthwhile for them to bother to run the scam. Don't be a victim. If it starts with Due Dil so be it, but even Due Dil alone is not enough (IMHO).
Re: Scam Zors by Guest
Now this is a post worth reading. Glad to see you're writing with substance now GB.
Well said Granville Bean by Ray Borradale
Ray Borradale's picture

It tain't that easy.  I'm half way through the induction of a new franchisee that I was handed and this man has it all.  And when I talked to him about his due diligence he admnitted he based his decision on our reputation and our performace.  He has industry and management background and he came from a dealer franchise.  He spoke to a number of existing zees and understood that many multi-franchise.  I ain't got a magic wand - did he understand the contract?  Did he evaluate the location?  Did he investigate everything? No!  He said he searched and found nothing worthwhile to guide him.  

He will do very well but he is lucky.  The only 'X' he got from me was his luck.  Damn it Janet .. this is frustrating .....

The more things change; the more they stay the same.

sounding stupid by Guest
I doesn't seem that you need any help in the sounding stupid department. You point to misrepresentations by the franchisor, but this is not the basis for any of the cases I am seeing. Franchisees and independent business owners that decide to save a few bucks in up front legal and financial advice while investing hundreds of thousands of hard earned dollars to open a business, and then sign leases and other obligations totalling hundreds of thousands of dollars in additional commitments, without getting sound legal and financial advice makes absolutely no sense. the person most responsible for this decision is themselves. It seems that these franchise documents are readily available for all to read and are fairly clear in their language. I never hear people say that they didn't understand what the document said, just that they ignored it and assumed that the worst would never happen.
Fairly clear to read? Then why do we need to take by Barbara Jorgensen
Barbara Jorgensen's picture
an FDD to a lawyer?  The key word here is "fairly."
We assume you can read. Comprehension of the language in light by RichardSolomon
RichardSolomon's picture
of the deal realities is another matter. When much of what you are told by a franchisor about the relationhip is simply not reliable, your ability to read won't suffice to reduce the risks you are about to assume. Basically, there can be no fair contract if the deal has risks that you don't appreciate and that you are not ready to assume - and would not assume if you understood them. That's why I keep telling people that if the lawyer they select doesn't vet the deal as well as the legalistics, that lawyer is useless. Without the ability to sizeup the business side as well as the law side, you are not really serving your own interests as you want to serve them. Every franchisee in here who has been fleeced went to a lawyer who did not understand what I am talking about, and who addressed only the law side of franchising. Do they wish they had better quality help before they signed their franchise agreements? You bet your sweet bippy they do. In my less than humble opinion, those who advise you not to get the killer due diligence on the deal and the law are serving the interests of franchisors who would prefer you not be able to see the whole picture too clearly. Once you sign the contract, your arse is theirs. When you see someone in here posting that expensiver killer due diligece is unnecessary, ask yourself and them which side of the franchising business writes their pay checks. If they work for an organization that looks primarily to franchisors and those who sell to franchisors for their revenue, that is a better indicator of where they are coming from than any protestations they may make about their being unbiased.

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Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School


Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School
Spend The Money by Guest
As someone who cheaped out on legal advice and has regretted it ever since I will tell anyone who is looking at buying a franchise to SPEND THE MONEY on a good lawyer specializing in franchise law. If they have ANY questions regarding the agreement WALK AWAY. It would've been the best money I ever spent. Instead I used a lawyer to review the legalities and didn't get the layman's interpretation of the completely one-sided QUIZNOS franchise agreement. I blame only myself for that decision and I paid the price of a good college education for it. The ONE positive is that I learned my lessons well. When it was time to file for bankruptcy I hired a very good BANKRUPTCY lawyer and got out losing only the money I invested. No negotition, no Mr. Nice Guy. I used the same legal system that got me into the mess I was in to get me out. The moral of the story? Don't be like me and remember the bankruptcy lawyer as the best money you ever spent during your days as an entrepreneur.
I understand one of the reasons to have a franchise lawyer by Barbara Jorgensen
Barbara Jorgensen's picture

read the FDD is they can see  the misleading statements.  Lawyer's write the contracts and many times people cannot see the statements that are not concrete. 

Do not take me wrong. I believe in giving contracts to a killer franchise lawyer.  (Richard is a pro at it.)  There must be a reason that Obama is insisting that credit card companies write contracts where the common layman will be able to understand what the contracts say.  The FDD uses words that are tricky.  Many times people believe they are talking about them.  The fact is the FDD is talking about the zor.  They use words that can interpert the statement different ways.  Some people call this double talk.  I am afraid to sign any contract without a legal mind reviewing it.    

This is exactly the direction the courts are starting to go by RichardSolomon
RichardSolomon's picture
The era of sympathy for incompetent adults is cooming to a close. Signing major agreements on faith without understanding how they develop in the particular business over time in reality is suicide.

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Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School


Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School
As more and more stories develop I am sure misrepresentation by Barbara Jorgensen
Barbara Jorgensen's picture
will be heard in the courts.  Don just wrote one today.  
30 lawsuits in 10 years by Ray Borradale
Ray Borradale's picture

and you still signed - 'only' 30 lawsuits?

Your wife needs to be severely spoken to - you poor thing.

The more things change; the more they stay the same.

Colorado is not my favorite state by Barbara Jorgensen
Barbara Jorgensen's picture
at all.  I hate Colorado.  They don't have any laws there to protect the zees.
Quiznos Quote Questions by Boudica
Boudica's picture
Could someone with the required litigation experience comment upon the Quiznos claim 
"This ruling allows us to further focus our time and resources on what is most important....."
with regards to the notion that having 18 individual cases filed against them instead of a class action would be time saving as they suggest? Us non legal types are just wondering?
Must be 'zor speak for 'go away and leave us alone' by simon young
simon young's picture
I wonder if a lawyer who advised a propsective 'zee to sign such an agreement could face a claim of negligence? Assuming that a lawyer was used of course!
The negligence claim is probably worthless because... by RichardSolomon
RichardSolomon's picture
(1) Lawyers who use written retainer agreements ( as we are told by the bar rules to do) probably state that they are giving legal advice only - Lawyers have no malpractice coverage for business advice, with few exceptions. (2) Lawyers are taught to respond to the question "Do you think this is a good deal?" by saying "If what they say is true, it could be". (3) There are too many variable factors that contribute to franchisee failure to enable the losses to be pinned on the legal advice obtained before the franchise investment was made. If you want more effective guidance from your franchise lawyer, you have to ask whether he vets the business issues as well as the legal issues. If the lawyer says he only vets the legal issues, you are just wasting your money. The reason for that is that if the deal is a bad deal, it makes no difference what the contract says. A "fair" contract on a bad deal is still a disaster. The best recent example of that is the fact that the AAFD gave Cuppy's - a really awful scam franchise - its certificate of fair franchise contract. Cuppy's used that to sell franchises on a total scam deal. No one came out whole on a Cuppy's franchise.

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Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School


Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School
What happened to the TSFA website? by Guest
TSFA website suspended? Why?
TSFA Update by Guest
It's being updated - new look and such...they've been posting that request for update ideas for a while.
Quiznos Franchise Owners by Guest
Don't tell me the TSFA website was shut down because they couldn't afford the website hosting. What is up. tsfa.info
TSFA site has no down time by maddog
It's been up all along ...... Try http://www.toastedsubs.info/ You have to sign up for membership to read the forums. Only $25 for 2 years, and you can pay online. For a Q store owner, this is the best $25 you will ever spend.

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