Public Forums of Discussion
share franchise news, to prosper and amuse
Anytime Fitness or Snap Fitness
I have always wanted to own my own business and I have a fitness background and have been considering Anytime Fitness and Snap Fitness. Neither one are in my area so I can compare them by visiting them in person, only what I gather from my research. Does anyone know anything about either that would help me in the decision making process? Thanks!
(3 votes)
new store
I was thinking about checking out a new Snap Fitness franchise. Can somebody tell me how its working? It sounds like the corporate office has issues.
RUN the other way!
Do not under any circumstances buy a Snap Fitness license. Peter Taunton is a crook and a liar, and his new COO Gary Findley is no better. The frachise agreement is airtight and of course slanted in every way in their favor, no different from any other franchise there. But they will break any part of it they choose and club you to death with it at the same time. They will say whatever they have to in order to make the sale, and then you're on your own baby!!! You wil be forced to do all of your business with companies that are owned by Taunton family members and cronies, at highly inflated prices. Your support from Corporate is nonexistent, and heaven help you if you need some real help. You won't get any from these people.
They all claim to be Christians and that they run the business in a moral and ethical manner, it's all window dressing. Don't believe one word of it. I hope these scumbags enjoy their money, it won't help them in the end. Run, don't walk, away from this den of thieves and liars.
not good
not good
Snap Fitness Owner
I am a current owner of an active Snap Fitness with plans to build out 2 more. My experience so far as a Snap Fitness owner has seen a profitable business model but TERRIBLE support from corporate. It is extremely obvious to the franchisee that Snap Fitness has entirely no interest in your best interest. The technology is a disaster with members becoming increasingly frustrated with door access issues. Any accountability from Peter Taunton or "corporate" is non-existent. Any marketing campaigns are dismal and completely ineffective. In short, I am very disappointed with the franchise.
Snap Fitness 101 - Important Educational Information
Here are two previous posts new visitors should read before delving into this sea of rhetoric and spin. Scroll down to read about other unhappy Snappers who are padding corporate pockets. Learning the hard way is optional!
By Guest2010-01-25 21:52
Peter Taunton's Snap Fitness; Buyer Beware
Buyer Beware. I know Peter Taunton , and I believe wholeheartedly that he is as shallow and dishonest as one can be. In my opinion, he is a con artist through and through and I think he is capable of screwing anyone who gets in the way of him making his almighty dollar; the dollar seems to be his god. In my opinion, anyone considering purchasing a Snap Fitness franchise should take their money and run, run, run in the opposite direction before he gets his slimy hands on it. I think he is probably laughing all the way to the bank, driving his $150,000 Mercedes, then sitting on the deck of his $6,000,000 home on the lake, wondering just how many more suckers he can lure into his faulty business model before people wise up. All the while, the franchisee's are wondering how they are going to keep the lights on because they can't keep enough consistent members to pay the bills.
Don't you think the CEO of Snap Fitness should believe in his own business model enough to workout at a Snap Fitness? Well, Peter Taunton works out at LIFETIME FITNESS! I think this man defines the words, sleazy, snake oil salesman, and con artist. Why not just open your own fitness center using a slightly modified concept? Isn't that what Peter Taunton did to Anytime Fitness when he started his business? I think this man is completely void of a conscience, integrity, or any other good quality, which is likely to be reflected in doing business with him. Buyer Beware.
FYI: I am not a bitter franchisee; I know better than to ever do business with this man.
By Guest2009-12-20 21:09
PETER TAUNTON IS SNAP FITNESS FOUNDER/CEO:
Don't be surprised if Peter makes a run for office or is appointed to a position with these type of qualifications. He definitely meets all the criteria for an extended political career.
PETER TAUNTON = Case # 24040055, Court File # K598001371, Disposition Date 3/18/1999, Minnesota Attorney General's Office St. Paul, Kaniyohi District Court, Theft-by Swindle-Artifice/Trick/Device or Other, Statute # 609.52.2.4., CONVICTED, Probation Sentence - 2 Years
Snap Fitness - Due Diligence - Hot Off the Press
Check out the links above each section. The important excerpts are just below each link for an easy read. Go to the link and read the full story.
http://askville.amazon.com/founder-Snap-Fitness/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=62348483
November 2, 2009
“I have no desire to sell a majority share of our company,” Taunton says. “It’s never been in dialogue with anyone. We’re very well capitalized, and we’re a very profitable company.”
Taunton added, however, that if Snap Fitness could find the right strategic partner, he would entertain a sale.
“I’ve always left that door open,” he says. “If I didn’t, it would be very irresponsible on my part as a founder and CEO. After all, I’ve got hundreds of franchisees that depend on me to make good decisions.”
One industry insider says that Taunton and his staff have been sending letters to investment companies with specific, detailed information about Snap Fitness.
“Snap has been shopping for money for about a month,” the insider says. “They may say that they’re not for sale, but they sent out a letter which pretty much indicated that the company was for sale. They’re looking for investors.”
(So, no way I'm gonna sell. Ok, maybe if the right offer comes along but only because I owe it to my franchisees. Sound like recent rhetoric from a politician in Nebraska?)
Jan 6, 2010
http://www.bison.com/press_SnapFitness_01062010
Snap Fitness makes its compact, state-of-the-art clubs easy to own, manage and market. Start-up costs range from $77,000 to $272,000, putting it well below the price tag of well-known franchisors in other categories. The ability to manage operations via web-based tools with little need for on-site staffing makes it attractive for entrepreneurs and others seeking opportunities that accommodate semi-absentee ownership. Snap Fitness also offers its more than half a million members a convenient, low-price alternative to traditional big-box health clubs.
($77,000 for a franchise? RIGHT! Little need for on-site staffing? SURE! Low price alternative? No contract is $34.95 mo! This is salesmanship at it's finest!)
January 15, 2010
http://clubindustry.com/forprofits/snap-fitness-findley-coo-20100115/
CHANHASSEN, MN -- Snap Fitness has promoted former Curves President Gary Findley to chief operating officer. “We’ve got a lot of great team members, and he’s a nice addition to our team,” Snap Fitness Founder and CEO Peter Taunton says.
Findley had spent eight years at Curves International. He also served two years as vice president of franchise sales for the Dwyer Group.
Taunton says Snap has about 70 clubs in development, with almost 2,000 sold locations and more than 1,000 open clubs.
Last year was a challenging one for the company and its franchisees, Taunton says, in terms of getting financing from banks. With a buy-back program in place, in which Snap Fitness is on the hook to buy back clubs that fail, Taunton expects a smoother year in 2010.
(Perform a search for "Curves for sale" to see how Gary Findley's previous franchise company is faring. Peter, will the "buy back" program be retroactive to the franchisees who lost it all the last couple years? Afterall, they are the ones who filled your pockets with capital to continue this adventure. Too little, too late!)
Not one of these articles/press releases report the reality of the individual franchisees who are struggling. Snap Fitness, just as Curves had in the past, continues to report phenomenal growth despite the financial suffering of their franchisees. BOTTOM LINE: The business model is optimum for those at the top.
I would like to have you tell
I would like to have you tell me more I'm having issues.
Competition from franchisor
Both the SNAP & Anytime Fitness franchise agreements ("FA") require the ZEE to agree that the customer list and information developed by the ZEE becomes the property or the ZOR. Both FA's also allow the ZOR to compete directly with the ZEE, under a different name if in protected territory, and under the same name if outside the protected territory, even if the territories overlap. Seems to me that the ZOR's ability to use your customer list to compete directly against you is a recipe for disaster from the ZEE's perspective. The ZEE just put up an inital investment of ~$200K + their personal gurantee ("PG") on the real estate lease + their PG on the equipment lease + their PG on their obligations under the FA and the ZOR is contractually permitted to drive them out of business under the FA. Has anyone had any success negotiating these provisions out of the FA or figured out how to work around this situation?
Leaving a franchise
Specifically Anytime Fitness. Has anyone successfully gotten out of their franchise agreement either while it was in effect or when it came up for renewal and then gone independant?
Sooo you open a franchise business...
And then you want to continue in the same business, just not pay royalties?
Tom Garmon or Tom Garman? Either way please read...
This was posted on Blue MauMau "Curves slowing down?" blog earlier this year. Another fan Tom?
By Naybob
2009-03-15 00:37
Tom Garmon is still trying
Tom Garmon is still trying to sell suckers dying Curves franchises. If you go to his site, he's had no more than 16 clubs for sale since he broke away from McCord Business Brokers over money issues. He can't get any clients, yet he still thinks that health clubs will do well during the Bush-Cheney mini-Depression! Who is he kidding? He's been banned from spouting pro-Curves propaganda at just about every site out there, so now he slinks over to BlueMauMau to talk more nonsense. Ignore this snake-oil salesman! Curves will be gone soon enough, and then Garmon can find another money-draining franchise to sell to poor saps.
That is hilarious.
Sounds like another enraged lunatic. I like the hyperbole though. Quite colorful. They obviously weren't my client.
Tom, Silly Idea - Cut and Paste from "Curves Slowing Down"
Another fan of yours Tom? Below is a post taken from Blue MauMau "Curves Slowing Down" blog from a person who is educated in franchising and does not sugar coat the reality for profit. Thank you Michael.
Tom writes: "If you are not passionate about fitness DO NOT BUY ONE! Passion + Hard Word = Success."
May I be first the one to say that this is a stupid slogan.
No, a really, really stupid slogan.
Passion and Hard Work lead to bankrupcty in a broken system, a lousy demographic, or a sh***y business model.
Please come back when you want to talk with adults.
Michael Webster PhD LLB
Franchise News
Michael Webster, a franchisee attorney in Toronto, Ontario, publishes a website on business opportunities and franchises called "The BizOp News"
We All have an Opinion and Lawyers usually have two
I guess the intent of that post wasn't reflected in the words I chose. I never meant to say that passion + hard work = success. Obviously that is overly simplistic. I should ahve worded it differently. I have never seen anyone who is successful in the health club business who was not passionate about it and worked hard. It takes those two things to be successful, but there is more to a success formula. I did choose my words loosely and appreciate the opportunity to clarify that. I forgot about that post. I am happy to have an intelligent discussion, adn I will not get down in the gutter with anyone.
Tom on cue - MOTIVATION CONFIRMED!
Scroll down to read the short post From Tom. I placed it in the quotes below.
"By Tom2010-01-16 23:53
If you want to sell call me.
Perhaps I can help you either build or sell or both."
Most people who post on this thread do so to educate, share helpful experiences or increase awareness for those persons who are interested in specific franchise opportunities. There are others who are here to represent the same mentality that is prevalent in the franchises we are discussing, GREED! I will leave this up to the readers as to which category Tom has placed himself into with his latest post. If it talks like it, smells like it and blogs like it.........................
Intelligent discussion
What is with the dumming down of this thread. it is about Snap vs Curves. Stick to the topic. I think Mr. Garmon has alot of valid points. You sound like some enraged failure. Go back the the gutter where you came from or add something halfway intelligent.
Reply to "Intelligent Discussion"
Tom Garmon seems to be encouraging people to get into the fitness business, specifically into the clubs he is or could be financially involved with. The motivation being that he is a broker and could benefit. I on the other hand am here to inform and warn potential franchisees of the hazards of investing one's retirement, savings, investment portfolio or other resources in this possible boondogle. I stand to gain nothing except the satisfaction of knowing if one person performs their due diligence based on the information provided from this blog, I may have contributed to them avoiding a financial catastrophe.
Its great that Tom shares success stories but he has been in the business long enough to know the financial failures in the fitness industry, specifically franchises, far outnumber the successes. Sugar coating the reality of the situation is not beneficial to the current franchisees or the future ones. To suggest fitness franchising is financially lucrative and personally rewarding is both naive and ignorant of the facts.
Scroll down to "Small gyms suffer in a recession" posting below and read about the reality a lot of Snap Fitness franchisees are facing. Readers need to understand "non-disclosure agreements" are required by Snap Fitness owners and most management which limits what they can communicate about their business without potential repercussion from corporate.
Snap Fitness, along with other franchises, have set up the business model to guarantee their financial success without regard to each individual franchisees circumstances. They collect their fees whether a club is making money, breaking even or losing money. Their resources are heavily prioritized into marketing and selling more franchises to keep the revenue flowing and momentum positive for future potential franchisees.
These postings are for "Snap Fitness vs Anytime Fitness" but Curves is definitely deserving of the feedback presented here. Perform a search for any of the franchises above with "for sale" included and you will see for yourself from the results how many franchisees are looking for a way out of their nightmare.
"Intelligent Discussion" could be what Tom calls a "corporate shill", another fitness business broker, a franchisee in the minority having some success or just Tom setting up another account to give himself a needed stroke. (Check the similarity in the spelling.)
Either way, the REALITY remains the same!
Anytime fitness and Snap fitness
I am new to this site. And I am also intrigued by this Anytrime fitness and Snap Fitness concept.
Please fill me in on more about this. Thanks!
background checks
criminal record check
PETER TAUNTON - SNAP FITNESS FOUNDER/CEO
PETER TAUNTON = Case # 24040055, Court File # K598001371, Disposition Date 3/18/1999, Minnesota Attorney General's Office St. Paul, Kaniyohi District Court, Theft-by Swindle-Artifice/Trick/Device or Other, Statute # 609.52.2.4., CONVICTED, Probation Sentence - 2 Years
Reply to Tom's post below "I type fast. Consider me the"
Tom's quotes (and spelling) are cut and pasted from his post below titled "I type fast. Consider me the".
TOM SAID: I provide free consulting to health club owners via webinar's, my blog, and facebook. I am workign with Snap, Anytime, and Independant owners now, helping them to grow their clubs.
And where is this growth going on that you are speaking of? Go ahead, give us your www so we can see for ourselves. You never know, you might pick up a new client or two from Blue MauMau!!!
TOM SAID: As far as I can tell there is no stringent screening with Snap, Anytime, or Curves. I have never head there was.
A consultant to all of these companies and you have not heard of any screening procedures? How about $200,000+ in assets to qualify for each franchise license. Guess which one?
TOM SAID: I have 18 years experience and this scares me just thinking about it.
18 years experience? Mrs. Donahue wanted nothing to do with you. Makes a person wonder what she knows and what you are not sharing with us?
TOM SAID: I do know Snap gave extensions to anyone who asked. I have talked to enough owners (well over 100) to know.
How can anyone talk to "well over 100" owners that is not in the Snap Fitness corporate office or a regional rep?
TOM SAID: I cannot speak to that, because I am not a franchsiee and do not know their level of support.
You spoke with over 100 snap Fitness owners in the last quote from your post and you do not know their level of support? Are you listening to these people or just making stuff up?
TOM SAID: I offered my help and Mrs. Donahue declined.
Free consulting and she declined? Maybe it was the business card that read "Consultant to Snap Fitness, Anytime Fitness and all Independent Fitness Clubs"?
Hey Tom, this is the big leagues for franchise posts. I think you need a trip back to the minors. Work on your game and maybe the "Mrs. Donahue's" will look you up in the future! (This is the fruits of "18 years of experience"!)
Reply to Tom "Robin Hood" Garman's Book Below "I provide free"
Thank you Tom for confirming Snap Fitness is clueless in their selection process, training, philosophy and execution in franchising their clubs. That is what these posts are supposed to cover, the effectiveness or ineptness of franchising, specifically Snap Fitness and/or Anytime Fitness.
You mentioned you were a recommended vendor until last month. I take this to mean you are no longer a recommended vendor? If you are as good as you and your clients report, why wouldn't Snap Fitness, Anytime Fitness or Curves just hire you or retain you exclusively as a consultant?
There are a lot of Donahue's out there who need assistance, but the time to help them is before they commit to the franchise and sign the dotted line! That is the motivation for me to share everything I know about this subject and to insure people who invest their hard earned money know what they are getting into. Should they trust the franchising salespersons who are telling them everything they want to hear???
You seem like a decent person and I applaud you for your efforts! Blue MauMau will probably be removing your lengthy post due to their "advertisement" policy but I hope you are able to solicit a few clients before that happens.
Thank you Tom for confirming
Thank you Tom for confirming Snap Fitness is clueless in their selection process, training, philosophy and execution in franchising their clubs. That is what these posts are supposed to cover, the effectiveness or ineptness of franchising, specifically Snap Fitness and/or Anytime Fitness.
ANSWER:
These post are supposed to cover Snap VS Anytime. You keep dragging it off topic. I never said anyone was clueless. I said none of the fitness franchise concepts do personality profiles.
You mentioned you were a recommended vendor until last month. I take this to mean you are no longer a recommended vendor? If you are as good as you and your clients report, why wouldn't Snap Fitness, Anytime Fitness or Curves just hire you or retain you exclusively as a consultant?
ANSWER
I am no longer a recommended vender. Snap decided to pull "resale brokerage" in house. How the heck does a franchisor represent the Seller? In representing franchise owners across the board, I have had to advise them to get attorneys to write letters to the ZOR. No way a franchise would do this. It is a conflict of interest for them to represent the seller. Apparantly they want to make more $$. Listen, I call things like I see them. I am no shill. I speak what I believe. As for soliciting clients, that is never my goal here. . Mom and Pop gyms and franchisees. I am not hawking for business. I am attempting to provide my honest opinion here and am not trying to advertise. You asked for the referral. I have a stack of them. I didn't post this for the sake of advertisement.
As as far as trusting franchise sales people they are just that, salespeople. When you go to the Proctologist don't expect your teeth to get cleaned.
TOM SAID: I provide free
TOM SAID: I provide free consulting to health club owners via webinar's, my blog, and facebook. I am workign with Snap, Anytime, and Independant owners now, helping them to grow their clubs.
And where is this growth going on that you are speaking of? Go ahead, give us your www so we can see for ourselves. You never know, you might pick up a new client or two from Blue MauMau!!!
okay, here is a letter between a client and a member of their corporate office. I consulted with Jeff since the spring. AND FOR FREE!!!! Why, because when he sells he will call ME!!! this is the most recent one it was written on the 6th of January.
...the biggest asset was the fact that Tom took the time to point out what is the important details in running a successful club. I started working with Tom in the spring of 2009. That is when I went to the next level. A level that I,before that, thought you had to be lucky or in the right area to get the big results. With Tom's coaching I began my new journey with Snap. A journey that has gotten me so confident that I really believe you could parachute me into any town in America and I could open and operate a Snap at a high level. And when I say high level, I mean a Snap that can produce $9000-$13,000+ a month of net profit.
Tom set me up with the ecallcontrol.com where every call that came into my club was recorded and emailed to me. This allowed me to actually hear what my staff was saying on the phone. I was totally shocked when I started to listen to the emails. I DIDN;T KNOW WHAT I DIDN'T KNOW. My staff was terrible on the phone and this meant that I was terrible at training them. We had people calling in and my staff was giving prices out over the phone like no one's business, not getting contact info, not setting appts, ect--all the important things. I quickly sat down with my laptop with each staff member and starting training them on a script I put together to make it duplicateable for all involved. After a few months, I have a staff at all my clubs that is striving day in and day out to set appts, ask the right questions, and most importantly---SELL MEMBERSHIPS AND GET REFERRALS. My oldest Snap, Greenvile has seen it best month in December of 2009, my St Henry Snap has seen a plus 26 memberships in December of 2009 and my Celina Snap has seen 100 new membeships in December of 2009. Now into January, every day is not a matter of if I get memberships sold at each Snap but How many memberships will be sold each day!!
Tom also gave me some cost effective marketing ideas that got the phones ringing and the doors swinging. It is no accident that my Celina Snap sold 187 memberships in 14 days and 400 memberships from 10/14/2009 to 12/31/2009!! Plus we have 450 referrals and another 300 leads in the bank. I for once control my own destiny at Snap vs. Hoping I do better on this Snap.
I owe it all to Tom Garman because he is a motivator, he cares, he is passionate, and he now has me believing and excited that I can have a great business at Snap Fitness. He has me believing that I can do it in small town Ohio. I think the thing that separates Tom from everybody else is that he really cares. I now envision myself owning more Snap territories in Ohio and really feel that even though I am a Financial Advisor, I may have found my calling in the Fitness Industry.
I once again want to thank You for allowing me to work with a quality individual like Tom Garman.
Sincerely,
Jeff Wendel
TOM SAID: As far as I can tell there is no stringent screening with Snap, Anytime, or Curves. I have never head there was.
A consultant to all of these companies and you have not heard of any screening procedures? How about $200,000+ in assets to qualify for each franchise license. Guess which one?
ANSWER:
If there were screening procedures the Donahues should never had been approved. I deal in sales and acquisitions. It's a different side of the fence. I am not aware of the new sales screening, I jsut know that there is no personality profile.
TOM SAID: I have 18 years experience and this scares me just thinking about it.
18 years experience? Mrs. Donahue wanted nothing to do with you. Makes a person wonder what she knows and what you are not sharing with us? All I know is that they are bankrupt. So she must have known something I didn't. I jsut offered my services. I think the towel was already out.
TOM SAID: I do know Snap gave extensions to anyone who asked. I have talked to enough owners (well over 100) to know.
How can anyone talk to "well over 100" owners that is not in the Snap Fitness corporate office or a regional rep?
I was a recommended vender between January 2009 adn this past month. I talked to easily 100 people. I gave price opinion on 72. I have seen more financial statements on Curve and Snap than anyone in the country. I have data for days.
TOM SAID: I cannot speak to that, because I am not a franchsiee and do not know their level of support.
You spoke with over 100 snap Fitness owners in the last quote from your post and you do not know their level of support? Are you listening to these people or just making stuff up?
It's a mixed bag really. Some complain about support. Some dig themselves in a hole so deep (Donahues) that it's darn near impossible to help. Others like my firend Mike Carr in Clarksdale, MS opened up in Mid July and has close to 600 memberships! and I have a client who has 80 memberships after 1 year. Neither one had fitness center experience. Biting off more that one can manage too quickly is often the kiss of death.
TOM SAID: I offered my help and Mrs. Donahue declined.
Free consulting and she declined? Maybe it was the business card that read "Consultant to Snap Fitness, Anytime Fitness and all Independent Fitness Clubs"?
Listen, My firm helps whoever I can and whoever will listen. I am sure that Mrs. Donahue felt that I was some corporate shill. I can totally understand that. Being a recommended vender will make you think 3 times before you speak. I like to be free to speak my mind, and now I can.
Hey Tom, this is the big leagues for franchise posts. I think you need a trip back to the minors. Work on your game and maybe the "Mrs. Donahue's" will look you up in the future! (This is the fruits of "18 years of experience"!)
Thanks, I'll take that into consideration. As for the Donahues, they are good people. I really felt bad for the situation they found themselves. I remember Gary always bragging, "My wife manages over 10 million dollars in accounts adn we haven't failed at anything before." Honestly, their Ego played a big role. Accepting one's mistakes with a big ego doesn't come easy. Nevertheless, I do wish them success. Tough times never last, but tough people do.
Small Gyms Suffer in a Recession
According to the industry publications by IHRSA,
Small Gyms suffer in recessions. Peter Taunton himself (Founder/CEO) stated that his clubs are around 500 members (which I don't believe). The reality is that most clubs are just barely above or in many cases just below 200 members.
Here is a quick idea on the overhead and revenue.
Heat/Air Conditioning $400 month for 2,500 s.f. building
Rent at $16 s.f. around $3333
Equipment $85,000 loan (bare minimum) at 5%SBA approx 1,300
Owner/labor cost per month $2,000 (Conservative/below poverty level!)
Monthly Franchise Fee $500 + indirect fees that is virtually impossible to be below $800 plan on realisitcally $1,200.
Internet/Phone $100
Cable Tv $50
Cleaning Supplies $150
Merchant Fees/Checkfree Fees 300
Total Overhead 8,433
Total Revenue from 200 members at a generous rate of $29.95 (Planet Fitness/World's - they must really be going broke are at $10) Right now, in most areas, Gyms are lucky to get $29.95. That leaves only $5,990 of Net Revenue and $2,443 of LOSS. $29,316 OF MONEY LOST PER YEAR. BUYER BEWARE!
I'LL SELL YOU MINE IN A HEARTBEAT.
If you want to sell call me.
Perhaps I can help you either build or sell or both.
Tom is right on cue - MOTIVATION CONFIRMED!
By Tom2010-01-16 23:53
If you want to sell call me.
Perhaps I can help you either build or sell or both.
Most people who post on this thread do so to educate, share helpful experiences or increase awareness for those persons who are interested in specific franchise opportunities. There are others who are here to represent the same mentality that is prevalent in the franchises we are discussing, GREED! I will leave this up to the readers as to which category Tom has placed himself into with his latest post. If it talks like it, smells like it and blogs like it.........................
Chill out!
If I were in these poor franchise owner's shoes, I would be happy to hear there is someone out there that possibly could help me out. It sounds to me, reading Tom's posts, he is offering to help. I am not getting the greed part. If I run into people who are having trouble in my line of work, as a consultant I sometimes mention I could help them out. I am perfectly happy if they say no, because I am so busy I have a hard time fitting more work in, but it is like a moral obligation to at least offer. But I guess you'd call me greedy, too.
Such generalizations are not productive. Who are you to judge what anyone's motivation is?
Hey "Chill out"
Tom is a commissioned re-saler of franchises, specifically Snap Fitness, Curves and Anytime Fitness. He knows these have a high percentage of failure so he circles in like a buzzard (Offers his help), stays within smell distance (So he can be there just before the rot sets in) and keeps his "available services" (What is his motivation to help them succeed?) in the forefront of the potential customer.
Seems to me I would be a lot more comfortable with a "consultant" who has their compensation attached to the club succeeding and increasing revenue instead of failing and receiving a commission when it is sold.
Mr. Chill Out, please read all of the posts involved with these issues which will make it easy to see through this transparent shill. (Using his own words) BTW, this forum is specific to choosing Snap Fitness or Anytime Fitness as a franchisee. For current owners, refer to Snap Fitness - Closing, Bankruptcy in Progress forum which will have lots of contributors soon!
Anytime Fitness larger
Anytime Fitness larger footprint put it an an inherant disadvantate; especially when we hit that downturn.
Franchise & Resale Value
I went with a franchise, (Snap).
This is the best move I ever made, as I am an absentee owner.
Besides all of the support, training, marketing, & brand name recognition that Snap gave me. The company gave me something else.....VALUE ! The value of my gym is much higher than a (mom & pop) gym.
I am having my club valued by a broker and after being open 14 months, the broker expects my Snap to be worth well over $500,000. !! I have less than $184,000 invested in my Snap.
I'm purchasing 3 more locations to build up and flip for a nice profit.
I hope my experience with Snap helps some of you get the big picture.
Welcome Mr. Franchise & Resale Value
You have shared the "little picture" with the readers. Please read on for the "big picture".
There is no one visiting, posting or reading the posts on this website who dispute there are a minority of Snap Fitness franchisees having success. Anyone who has attended the webinars sponsored by Snap Fitness can attest to this. The question is how are the majority of franchisees performing? You have provided a "snapshot" of your success which is the type of strategy Snap Fitness corporate uses to recruit new franchisees and motivate existing clubs. "Cherry picking" a few "cash cow" locations is contrary to full disclosure and just feeds into the mentality of the Snap Fitness potential quagmire being created.
If indeed you have been in the industry long enough to experience $184,000 investment growth to $500,000 value, (Would someone actually pay this amount for your franchise?), you have been around long enough to witness the absolute financial collapse of several Snap Fitness franchisees.
You must be receiving the continuous e-mails from other Snap Fitness owners who are peddling their extra licenses, locations and entire businesses for very deep discounts.
You must be "in the know" of all of the Snap Fitness owners who subsidize their business monthly and have never seen anything resembling a profit.
You have to be aware of the high costs of the services "recommended" to Snap Fitness franchisees to provide cleaning products, television and music service, equipment repairs, etc.
You must know of all of the Snap Fitness franchisees who had no fitness experience, no other business experience, no previous knowledge or experience of franchising and bought into the "absentee owner" philosophy and are now regretting that non-reversible decision.
You have to be receiving the steady stream of Snap Fitness corporate commitments to upgrades, improved software, better sales and marketing material, better customer service, etc. but still consistently experience issues and frustrations with all of the above.
You must know Snap Fitness corporate is reporting "off the charts" increased revenue and rank nationally high in revenue growth and franchise licenses sold and yet individual franchisees are struggling to just stay afloat.
Do you really believe Snap Fitness provides all of the tools, knowledge, financial and business training, sales and marketing expertise and business acumen for a high percentage of their franchisees to succeed in this challenging economy or any economy for that matter?
PLEASE let us know when your club sales for the $500,000 you are counting on and when you purchase your three pack! We are all relying on you to confirm the dream is alive and well and a lot of our nightmares will have an opportunity to come to an end.
PS. Mr. Franchise & Resale Value could just be a figment of someone's imagination so please do not misconstrue the rebuttal to the post as giving it anymore credibility than it deserves. Just read Tom's posts below to confirm this thought process. Gary, are you sneaking on here?
Dynamic Club Outfitters - Ad Space - $$$
Hey Larry Anderson, (President of Dynamic "Club or Fitness" Outfitters)
I hope Blue MauMau sends you a huge invoice for that ad!
You really need to invest time and resources on either hiring a website expert or taking some classes if you are doing it yourself. You have redefined "low budget" with your website.
Postings here are for "Anytime Fitness or Snap Fitness" Your ads would fit in better with the Craigslist crowd.
No extra charge!
execution not concept
Can there really be a unique "concept" in fitness clubs, one that nobody else could reverse engineer and imitate if it is seen to work? The gym world is full of "concepts". In our local 'county seat' (small city) two new franchised gyms opened on opposite sides of the SAME BLOCK of the SAME STREET within a coupla of months of each other. They must have been in planning at overlapping times. We'll see how long this lasts, they are already both competing on price. There were already three other gyms in that city, though one (with a "musclehead" following) closed and was absorbed by the other musclehead gym.
And I'm not even counting the Curves in with the gyms, nor the "Y". Ya gotta evaluate the competition and pick your niche, then lease it right, build it out right (on budget) and sell it right and run it right. Just "concept" alone aint gonna do it. I belong to the independant gym over in the next town (suburb) that has a high end following. They are 1,5 times the price of the franchised gyms and pay no franchise fees or royalties; they keep price in mind but don't compete directly on it. They are staffed (usually two PLUS any trainers on duty) and NOT 24-hr. It's coupled with a Day Spa (separate fees) and holds classes like yoga, spinning, boot camps, etc. and is known for its personal trainers. Ya gotta pick a locally underserved niche and then execute (or else pick an already-served niche and be confident that you can out-compete the next guy and take share from him).
I am only a gym member, not a Zee nor any connection with a Zor. I am just thinking that there is a LOT more to it than just "which concept do I buy".
correction
independent, not independant
Time for a new concept perhaps??
I currently work for a smaller and newer franchise called illuminate gym. And after reading these posts it sounds like the screening process at both Snap Fitness and Anytime Fitness leave something to be desired. I mean if you understand the franchise world it is extremely short sided to for a franchisor to sell to just anyone with up front money. The real money in the franchise world is the royalties that build up over time because your model is successful. If these two companies continue to just hand out franchise models like candy to people that will undoubtedly fail then their model will also find its way to failure. At illuminate gym our experience in the fitness industry and the franchise world has helped us to realize the importance of getting the right franchisees. If you check out illuminate gym and you have money you're not gaurunteed a franchise unit because it's more important to us to grow slowly with the right franchisees. Check us out at www.illuminategym.com.
correction
short-sighted, not short sided.
Why does it seem like Snap and Anytime just rip people off??
I baught into 'ONE OF THESE FRANCHISES' only to find that I had baught a territory that was already purchased. They were unreliable and unorganized. It was an expensive mistake that I was able to pull out of and the 'OTHER FRANCHISE' was even worse to deal with. I actually joined one of these franchises as a member and they kept stealing from my credit card until I had to report the card stolen and dispute the charges... and I was considering to buy a franchise from these people?!?!?! I would go with another franchise other than these 2
more corrections
bought, not baught
Hey Tom - Mr. FYI - Snap Fitness Unofficial Spokesperson
Tom's posts below include: FYI, I like your math try this one, Sales and Hindsight is always 20/20
It's about time they sent someone to represent Snap Fitness to clarify their stance on these issues! Tom, thank you for your feedback and now I wish to address your input. All of these numbered items are cut and pasted from Tom's recent and numerous posts below and include a title I added to define the content.
1. Tragedy: Gary's wife is a FULL TIME ad executive and NEITHER ONE HAD FITNESS CENTER EXPERIENCE. This was a LEAP OF FAITH for them. The LEASES on these location were VERY HIGH as they were signed in the very peak of the real estate market. LACK OF BUSINESS EXPERIENCE, ANY KNOWLEDGE OF FITNESS CLUBS, peak rent, and TERRIBLE TIMING, coupled with the CHALLENGE OF MANAGING staffs in 3 locations it was a RECIPE FOR DISASTER.
My question is simple. How did this sincere and innocent couple qualify through the "stringent" and "tight screening" of the Snap Fitness corporate model? The same as all the rest of the franchisees who learned the hard way I guess, they were willing to put up the $$$ and Snap Fitness was more than willing to take it! It appears they fit the Snap Fitness profile to perfection. Thank you for clarifying this for all the readers. The reason for this website and others like it are to help to educate and stop the possible exploitation of innocent franchisees who are persuaded into investing in these potential boondoggles. There are a lot more Gary's out there than people know.
2. Sales analogy (I guess?): If you have a car dealership and the guy has the money to pay cash for 3 cars, but can't afford insurance on the cars after spending his money is it your responsibility to not sell him one or two of the cars?
Another simple question for you Tom. Would this be a GM vehicle from a dealership that is scheduled to be closed? (I suppose this is some type of justification for selling the three franchisee package instead of just one? Save this thought for #4 and commissions.)
3. Franchiser responsibility: Whether you buy a Snap Fitness or an Anytime you are getting a franchise; not a personal consultant who will walk you hand in hand daily on your business venture and neither guarantee success in their franchise agreements.
So what you are basically saying is once they have sold the franchise, GOOD LUCK, because they will be moving on to the next potential franchisee who has money to invest in the company expansion. We have now insured Snap corp will be receiving monthly fees from the new franchisee so the only things left to sell them are sticky note promotions, t-shirts and water bottles! The monthly fees seem to be non-negotiable no matter how financially strapped the franchisees get and how much more help they may need to succeed.
4. Traction: Sales people make a commission. All these big franchisers hire outside sales people to get traction. These sales people are getting paid 50% - 80% commission. Franchising is a business don't forget that. Forget the warm fuzzies. What matters in franchising is TRACTION. Snap has it. Anytime lost it. Snap is emerging the winner in this slugfest. I can't wait until new FDDs out in the spring.
Thank you for that dissertation!!! SALES PEOPLE MAKE 50%-80% COMMISSION. That's all we need to know. Ask Gary and his wife how they feel about that now!
5. Hindsight: Hindsight is always 20/20 and very few people get the benefit of hindsight twice. Gary has connections all over the world and it scares the piss out of Anytime Corp. Corp shills for anytime all over here slinging mud about Snap because they are terrified. Terrified at the FDD coming out. Terrified about the global growth.
Based on the "downward move" Gary Findley made in taking the position at Snap Fitness, the perception could easily be made that it was a change motivated by desperation. Anyone else out there want to hire a former Curves CEO? How did the company work out for him that he started on his own before coming to Snap? Hindsight? If a person's head is so far up it, how can they see it?
6. Skid marks: Facts are Facts and "Guest" has skid marks in his underwear.
Tom, I may have skid marks but you my friend are FULL OF IT!
7. Spell Check: Tom, next time please use spell check before hitting the post button. Do you know how many corrections I had to make to cover for you? Hopefully the readers will not go back and read your posts. (Actually, I hope they do! hint, hint)
You never answered. Where's the other dollar?
Three guys break down and walk to a hotel for the night. Each of the three give the front dest 10 bucks. The morning manager comes in and realises the men have been overcharged and instructs the front dest to retun Five 1 dollar bills to the room. The bellman figures there are 3 guys and 5 dollars so he'll jsut give each man back a buck. He knocks on the door tells them men that instead of the rooms being 10 bucks each person they are only 9 bucks each person and hands each a dollar and puts 2 in his pocket. How much did the 3 men pay for the room?
Answer 9 * 3 = 27 + 2 = 29. Where's the other dollar?
Where'
Three guys break down and walk to a hotel for the night. Each of the three give the front dest 10 bucks. The morning manager comes in and realises the men have been overcharged and instructs the front dest to retun Five 1 dollar bills to the room. The bellman figures there are 3 guys and 5 dollars so he'll jsut give each man back a buck. He knocks on the door tells them men that instead of the rooms being 10 bucks each person they are only 9 bucks each person and hands each a dollar and puts 2 in his pocket. How much did the 3 men pay for the room?
Answer 9 * 3 = 27 + 2 = 29. Where's the other dollar?
I type fast. Consider me the
I type fast. Consider me the Willaim Faulkner here if you will. I don't bother with spell check unless it is my blog. But I will try to do better since you sound like my 9th grade English teacher, Mrs. Fletcher.
First, I want to clarify something. I do not speak for Snap. I am an independant business broker with a SPEL CHECK PROBLEM. I do not sell new territories, 3 packs, etc. I provide free consulting to health club owners via webinar's, my blog, and facebook. I am workign with Snap, Anytime, and Independant owners now, helping them to grow their clubs. I beleive that the Snap model tends to be less risky, simply due to the small footprint and related overhead. I opened my first health club out of college and would have gone broke in 6 months if it hadn't been for my father. So I can relate to struggling health club owners. The only difference with my scenario is that I only had myself to blame. I had worked in a gym for 3 years and jsut graduated college.
To Address #1
As far as I can tell there is no stringent screening with Snap, Anytime, or Curves. I have never head there was. With Cold Stone Creamery you have to take a personalty profile. Without a doubt a personality profile would increase the success rate but lower sales, and possible create a new liability. There is an old saying in the health club business, "It's never the palace, but always the people."
To Address #2
I am not sure how you rebuff anything there. Look, I don't sell new territories. So I could care less how many territories they buy. I'll tell you this, though. If I go and plop down 40 for 3 territories and plan to open 3 gyms in 6 months, you better beleive that I am gonna run like hell. I have 18 years experience and this scares me just thinking about it. But, if you do you can at least blame the salesperson. I do know Snap gave extensions to anyone who asked. I ahve talked to enough owners (well over 100) to know. I do buy GM vehicles by the way.
To Address #3
I cannot speak to that, because I am not a franchsiee and do not know their level of support. I have built up clubs for people only to see the owner come in and drive them all away. One complained to her members about her husbands affair. It's not always the palace, but mainly the people. Know what you are buying and don't rely on what the sales person is telling you. Inspect what you expect as some say.
To Address #4
Look I don't pay these people I am pointing out the way these things happen. I am not justifying anything, merely pointing out the facts. People who are in sales sell. The more they sell the more they make. It's economics.
I have heard that Gary Findley left Curves they had buffer zones between some territories. After he left Curves sold the buffers. I heard this from a reliable source but do not knwo this to be 100% true. That was around 2004. In 2005 when only 230 Curves closed out of 9000. Still too many, yes I know. Then the economy started to slip and here we are 5 years later and. something like 2400 have closed since 2005. As far as his downward move, he left Curves somwhere in 2004 or early 2005. So this was not a downward move. I really don't understand what this has to do with the Donahues situation. I feel bad for them. I wish I could have helped them renegotiate leases and re structure. I offered my help and Mrs. Donahue declined.
Snap or Independent? Reply to post below......
You are addressing a situation occurring throughout the country. There are state, county and city permit regulations and requirements for 24 hour businesses, tanning, personal training and staffing during hours.
1. 24 Hour Business: Depending on the zoning, it may not be possible to offer this option. There are a number of Snap Fitness, Anytime Fitness, Independents and others who have adjusted to this in accordance with the prevailing zoning restrictions. I know of "24 Hour" clubs only open 6am - 11pm weekdays.
2. Tanning: There are several states throughout the country who restrict tanning to staffed times only and require employees to set the timers, provide eyewear and clean the tan areas after each use. I know several Snap Fitness clubs who have disregarded these regulations in the past and are probably continuing to do so.
3. Personal Training: Snap Fitness does not have an "umbrella" liability insurance program for personal trainers which leaves the responsibility up to the individual club owners and the personal trainers to retain it. This is another area where the oversight by corporate Snap Fitness and the franchisees is deficient whether it is on purpose, just plain ignorance or the costs are too exorbitant for the return on investment.
4. Staffing: There are several states, counties or cities who require a certified CPR/AED employee on staff at all times during health club hours. This is becoming even more prevalent as the number of lives saved with prompt emergency response and the AED are documented. As far as Snap Fitness enjoying a leniency from these regulations due to their private club status, please refer to the post below titled - Peter Taunton for Senator, Governor, House or Czar? Can it be any clearer?
Snap Tanning
As a former owner, this part of the business always bothered me. Members with tanning are able to tan whenever and for how long they choose. I'm pretty sure this violates the letter of the law and certainly the spirit..depending on how facility "operating hours" are defined.
See this link for a good summary of applicable state tanning laws and regulatory agency contacts.
http://www.tanningtraining.com/reginfo/state.html
Stay away from an agreement
Stay away from an agreement that says that at all costs!! If Snap Fitness is providing FDD's like that then avoid them at all costs!!!! I am checking out a franchise called illuminate gym and I am quite impressed.
Snap, Anytime or Independent? Scratch one!
Scroll Down to "Snap Fitness - The No Spin Zone" and read all about this franchise opportunity. Bottom line below:
Recommendation: If you enjoy long hours, stress, cleaning, employee turnover, volunteer work and subsidizing your company every month, you will definitely enjoy Snap Fitness.
Snap, ATF, or Independent?
I'm trying to decide between opening a Snap, ATF, or going independent. If anyone has gone the independent 24/7 route, please get in touch with me. I'd like to know some of the ins and outs of doing so. Thanks!
Robert
graham@tidefans.com
I left you a message in your
I left you a message in your email about my concerns with both Snap and Anytime Fitness. The choice is yours but make sure you know your territory and what it will look like 10 years from now.
SNAP or Independent?
Hello,
Currently I have gone independent and have run into some barriers. Sometimes I think it may have been simpler to go with a franchise as it may provide you with a long term system that has already figured out the legalities of 24 hr gym ownership. Recently in PA the attorney general has given me a hard time about being open 24 hrs without a CPR certified employee on premise at all times. Has anyone else dealt with this problem? SNAP contends that since they are a "private club" that they are exempt from this. The PA Attorney General assures me that no fitness facilities are exempt from this. SNAP seems to be moving ahead with no attention being given to this so they must have it figured out. I would appreciate any help anyone could lend.
Snap Fitness Owners & Potential Franchisees
Snap Fitness is aggressively recruiting franchisees in USA and internationally. Several Snap Fitnesses have closed recently and there are those who are hanging in the balance. The articles below are taken from this website and show the dangers of investing in a franchiser who distances themselves from the risk and benefits regardless of whether the individual franchisees make money or not. If it looks too good to be true...................
http://www.bluemaumau.org/news_amazing_and_fascinating_story _about_australian_franchise_and_20_million_dollars_risk
http://www.bluemaumau.org/controversy_houston_lady_america