Comments and Forum Discussion Problems

Discussion of problems or suggestions about comment and forum issues, such as guidelines.

One such problem is that guests and members often will sidetrack comments under articles. There sometimes is confusion on when to begin discussions in forums and when to place it in comment areas.

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HELP, PLEASE MR EDITOR MAN

When I reply to something, it comes out elsewhere than following the post I was trying to reply to. It makes me look even stupider than I am.--

Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com,  has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School

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Mr. Blue MauMau

Tutorial for Comments

1.  The preview doesn't show where your comment will pop up.

2.  Tutorials with small videos might help.

3.  You really need to be able to turn some commentators off in a certain thread. 

Michael Webster PhD LLB
Franchise News

Bringing Order to a Shared News Site

I have been on the road on an investigative assignment. While away with limited time and access to the Internet, we had a number of postings that were off-color or just way off the topic.

Public forums and comments have all sorts of dynamics. One of them is the infamous "troll". Trolling aims to elicit an emotional reaction from those with a hair-trigger on the reply key in order to side-track the discussion.

Blue MauMau's articles have hard hitting topics that take a lot of investigative reporting effort to uncover. In this world there are individuals who may not want the subject discussed. Hence, trolls. And unfortunately, some of our posters are easy troll bait.

At Blue MauMau we believe in open discussion. Boy, do we believe in it. But there is a place and order for everything. Our forum areas are pretty wide-open. Those are perfect places to debate. But comments under articles will be more strongly moderated to keep on target. 

This community has been a learning process for me as a moderator. I am now of the opinion that this is the pecking order  - from strongest moderation to least:

  1. Front page News story
  2. Front page Blog
  3. News story (placed in the appropriate section - e.g. food, hotel, services)
  4. Franchise encyclopedia entry
  5. Blog (placed in the appropriate section - e.g. food, hotel, services)
  6. Comments under stories and blogs
  7. Shared franchise web links
  8. Forum discussions

I think we can have this order of moderation and still preserve everyone's free speech. Not everyone's post is a front page news story. And not everyone's comment will be placed under those news stories.

When writers have submitted stories about serious franchise news and issues, they deserve better than a conversation about the laundry or the same topic over and over again.

What that means is that under news stories and advice columns (blog entries), if someone has a hair-trigger in replying to a troll, they should not be surprised if their post is moved or unpublished.

Post in our forums for maximum freedom of expression. (Posting guidelines still apply.)

Maybe a troll forum should be created there.

Any thoughts?

--

Suggested reading:

Get that Forum goin'!

Mr. MauMau writes: Maybe a troll forum should be created.

A masochist walks up to a sadist and says "Hurt me, hurt me."

The sadist responds: "No."

Paul Steinberg
Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400

Biasing the sample

Don,

I think everything is going along perfectly well with no need for any change.

It is my experience that BMM accurately reflects the behind-the-scenes look of franchising and that every pearl starts from an irritant.

Let BMM and the internet attract and repel who it will. The meanness, revulsion and other assorted mask slips are what indicated an authentic experience.

Anyone that suggests you start biasing the sample by excluding people shows their true colours. If they feel so strongly, vote with your freakin' feet, big boys. I seem to be quite able to filter several thousand advertising messages sent my way per week without running to my daddy for protection.

Censorship is only promoted by Tier 2 near-human beings.

Les Stewart MBA
Understanding Franchising

I believe in getting all sides

of the story. There are plenty of lawyers, zors to hear what they have to say. There isn't enough of zees telling their stories. Variety is what makes things interesting. Especially in a public forum.

If I could write more of what's going on with my story I would. Trust me I cannot. I do not believe my post have been repetitive as of late.

I do believe I have no intention of name calling. You have to be in denial to not see what's going on, that I have some goading me to reply. So I couldn't get rid of him so I've been giving him what he has been giving me.

I heard on the radio that when someone continually bashes you it means you are speaking the truth. If what I write is irritating I simply do not understand. How do we learn except to ask guestions and write our thoughts. It isn't rude. You may think so because you disagree.

If you want a one sided forum for lawyers and zors than tell us. But I have to warn regular people you have to be thick skinned to survive these tough guys.

The good zors have nothing to worry about. My target is not the zors or lawyers as an audience. My goal is to warn people of the bad zors.

Although I would like correction from the lawyers, Fuwa and Les.

Loading the language

Do Diligence,

The term is "loading the language" and is used by many cults.

It is a crude way of stopping debate by attempting to intimidate a target. By using thought-terminating cliches (such as killer dd, FranWads) and blaming the victim, the bully is able to silence opposition not based on the quality of their reasoning but their experience in treating people as subhumans or intellectually inferior.

It is important to know that business thrives in fascist or totalitarian regimes. Bayer and Siemens (as well as IBM, I am told) did very well during WWII. 

Dr. Lifton has studied nazi doctors, Japanese military and Chinese "brainwashing" methods.

To understand the transparent tactics used by too many on this site, check out Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism.

It is important not to take these attacks personally as that would imply the attacker considers you a human being.

In some minds, you are human garbage once your fillings are dealt with.

Les Stewart MBA
Understanding Franchising

I speak Les

Les says, "Loading the language"
Translation: Les votes that out of place comments should be moderated by Mr. Blue MauMau.

Les says, "Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism"
Translation:  Les thanks all of you for your well thought-out postings and reminds everyone to keep on topic, totally.

Les says, "Bayer and Siemens (as well as IBM, I am told) did very well during WWII."
Translation: After reading these long and unrelated threads on your IBM laptop, you probably need a Bayer asparin and to watch an entertaining WWII movie to escape.

"You are human garbage once your fillings are dealt with"
Translation: Garbage posts should be moderated out. Oh...Your dentist just called to tell you that you need fillings and that Canadian dentists saw a big boom after WWII.

Demonization by comparison is a technique as well...

Les - who exactly are you comparing to war criminals, war profiteers and torturers?

It seems you have chosen some vile examples of inhumanity for your comparison purposes...and yet you preach from such a lofty perch! 

If I didn't know better I'd confuse you with a Holy Man.

The Truth Shall Set You Free!

TIF

To look past the abyss

TIF,

There are many forms of poverty. Money often costs too much.

I won the lottery with my marriage, kids, relatives and friends but my capacity for misdeeds is probably higher than most people.

If only there were evil people somewhere, insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Given the right circumstances, each of us will commit atrocities. I study evil in order to see beyond it.

For me...Maybe, for others.

Les Stewart MBA
Understanding Franchising

Indictment and Innuendo...

It is supremely insulting to say the least of your self-serving comparisons of evil doing and franchising with particular aspersion to franchisors. 

You seem to have a dual goal in your posting habits:

1. Prove your intellectual superiority

2. Characterize franchising as a whole as a devious ponzi scheme developed to defraud the uninitiated  and unwashed masses

Les you are not much different than the Item 20 Ranter albiet a more entertaining curiosity, but with no less of a bankrupt ideology.

The Truth Shall Set You Free!

TIF

Whatever turns your crank

TIF,

Funny you should mention, I had viewed myself as a type of novelty act or rodeo clown, of sorts.

Don't do the tactical stuff anymore; waiting on some A/Rs to resolve.

I tend not to take myself too seriously especially after working briefly with some individuals such as the awe-inspiring Gillian K. Hadfield. 

Professor Hadfield was once kind enough to instruct me on the difference between a professional graduate degree (even on from the Harvard B School of the North) and an academic degree.

Ouchy mama...

Les Stewart MBA
Understanding Franchising

Bankrupt Ideology

As many people know, Les and I have worked together.

But I don't think TIF is right is declaring Les having a "bankrupt ideology".

I disagree with Les about the scope of corruption in the franchise world, but I could be wrong too.

When Les annoys, we might do well to reflect on why we are annoyed.  Unlike the other posters, Les does have the weight of authority behind many of his posts.  

Could franchising be so corrupt as a whole, enabled by totally one sided agreements which are routinely upheld by the courts, that we don't see it because of group think?

I don't think so -but, it wouldn't surprise me if the method of organizing a firm known as franchising is considerably more dysfunctional than it appears.

Be nice to have a little bit more data and a trusted model. 

Michael Webster PhD LLB
Franchise News

Group think

Webster writes: Could franchising be so corrupt as a whole, enabled by totally one sided agreements which are routinely upheld by the courts, that we don't see it because of group think?

I stopped going to the ABA FoF meetings a while back because of the group think; much as leadership such as Mr. Dunham did commendably reach out for diverse views, even the zee-side was more like the Loyal Opposition than a true discourse.

We wrote about the ossification of franchise jurisprudence, and although it is still out there, that is changing. I believe that the broadening demographic of zees (particularly those coming from mid-management) is changing the dynamic, along with Internet sites such as BMM. Several folks who went to the last ABA FoF told me that there was a significant presence by newcomers who were not part of the club and whose views ranged across the spectrum.

Paul Steinberg
Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400

Group Think ----The ABA ---The Congress

Only when we get some "group thinking" from The Congress of the United tates will there be any real changes in franchising and franchise law that would protect the franchisees, who, under the law as it stands, are merely resources for the franchisors to grow chain units rapidly while avoiding risk.

The ossification of franchise jurisprudence is a direct result of government regulatory policy, and only The Congress can change this when there is majority "will" to do this.

Are you indicating that the new targets of the franchisors might change the dynamic, pushed by the "free speech" available on sites like Blue Mau Mau?

Does not living

in the front lines of franchising give you any weight? It is like saying a soldier on the front lines in battle deserves no opinion. Only the people at the top like the senators and congressman's opinion matters. Michael if my name had an PHD LLB than you'd consider my opinion?. Didn't you say your father did more with his life and probably more than you ever will.

Michael, what you say about Les may be true...

However given that most of us have not worked with Les all we can do is take his erudite poseur posts at face value. 

P.S. I am happy to infesticate this topic further after mastication.

The Truth Shall Set You Free!

TIF

TIF

TIF, you are a very bad man! 

Michael Webster PhD LLB
Franchise News

Re: TIF

A bad man Michael? How so? 

The Truth Shall Set You Free!

TIF

Michael, I have finished masticating...

However I still have an infestication dllemma to resolve. 

The Truth Shall Set You Free!

TIF

If you are implying

that all zors are ethical than who is living in the real world?. I do not understand because you have encouraged due diligence with many of your comments. Or are they just simply comments after a zee gets messed over.

If you want a forum strictly to encourage people to buy a franchise therefore I understand.

Owning you own business in the world of franchising is not true. Yet many zors glamorize this concept to it's fullest. Almost like the airlines did with airline stewardess. And all you are is a waitress in an airplane. Being a zee is not being an owner of your business. You are paying for EVERYTHING AND TAKING ALL THE RISK. AND MANY TIMES ARE WORKING FOR NADA.

To analyse why a zee is successful you have to infesticate. From investicating some true stories of successful zees I can see why many are successful. Many had a head start. Their parents paid for the build out. They did a totally different marketing system from our zor. Every situation is different. Even if it is in the same zor.

Now DoDil please tell me how one should Infesticate

Do I need the help of a professional?

Which is better Orkin or Terminix? I am partial to the Orkin Man.

The Truth Shall Set You Free!

TIF

Your are the zor

you know all the tricks. Would love to hear what you have to say. Tell us so everyone will know how bad zors do it. (Not implying you are a bad zor.) But I'm sure you know more than the average person,

Sorry Les, cant resist...

Les writes: Given the right circumstances, each of us will commit atrocities

Would pompous blogging qualify? ;)

Paul Steinberg
Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400

To everything a season

Les, it is not an issue of censorship. It is an issue of civility.

When someone goes to the trouble of writing an article discussing Vicarious Liability or Retail Lease Clauses, they don't want to have the subsequent discussion monopolized by discussion of Item 20 or whatever pops into the commenter's brain.

Some people are One Note Nellies who try to carry their obsession wherever they go. It is not only rude to the original author of the article, it is rude to the rest of us who have to wade thru mounds of off-topic garbage to get to the relevant debate.

Add to that the fact that some of our recently-joined BMMers seem to think that this is a place to indulge in childish taunting and bizarre name-calling, and you can see that from across the BMM spectrum there has been a lot of pressure on Mr. MauMau to restore a semblance of professionalism to this site.

Paul Steinberg
Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400

One Note Nellies

You can't claim one-note Nellies are off tune!

I realize you people want to ignore the constructive fraud of the package of a government disclosure and an adhesory contract agreement that protects franchisors and allows them to sell franchises at any degree of risk to the public. You don't think it is bad practice for the SBA to be guaranteeing loans on franchises with very high failure rates. You don't think that it was wrong for FranData to be selling Risk Profiles for $29.00 in which the failure rate of first-generation franchisees in franchise networks are disguised and obscured.

You want to concentrate on relationship issues and ignore the real problem that causes all of the fraud we are seeing today. It must be that you have given up on effecting any real change in the ineffective regulation of franchising, and are concentrating on losing the war and winning a battle ----for whom?

What is the point of having a good relationship with a franchisor who has tricked you into buying a franchise that may fail for the first owner 40% to 50% of the time, more or less? ---And, who can do this with immunity and impunity under federal regulatory policy and practice.

You know, as attorneys, that all of those who try to address the courts are there because they are angry that they were tricked into buying a franchise with a high failure rate and they are among the failures. Is it all just a big play and the actors all know their parts?

You know that the courts are closed, in practice, to any complaints about fraudulent inducement to contract by hiding the risk unless the A&R clauses can be overcome, You know that the franchisor side of the fence is where all of the big money is for attorneys and that they just throw bones out to the franchisee side of the BAR now and then ---to keep them barking.

I see I am the only one who has posted on EEOC and Medina ---who must have been pulling Janet Sparks leg when she said she looked at the contracts to see if the franchisor had any liability. This must be why Janet Sparks wrote this article ----very hard to pull her leg!

One Note Nellie or Item 20 Ranter...

Thank God folks are finally fed up with the disruptive posting.

What the One Note Nellies are doing is terrorism not debate.

The Truth Shall Set You Free!

TIF

A Vote Yes on Moderating Blog Comments

Translation: I think One Note Nelly's long score above is singing in favor of moderating blog comments.

I second that motion.

Clive Davis, franchise salesman

Guest wrote: You know that the courts are closed, in practice, to any complaints about fraudulent inducement to contract by hiding the risk unless the A&R clauses can be overcome,

I've heard of Merger & Integration clauses having to be overcome. But I think the only time you have to speak with your A&R guy about your contract is when you win American Idol.

Paul Steinberg
Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400

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