Cuppy's Coffee and Java Jo'z

Dale where are you?

People looking into Franchising BEWARE! DO NOT GO WITH CUPPY'S. IF YOU ARE BUYING ADVICE, THEY DON'T HAVE ANY. THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE A STRUCTURE IN PLACE. IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME, CALL AND INQUIRE AND ASK AS MANY QUESTIONS AS YOU CAN ABOUT BUSINESS. THINK OF A WHOLE BUNCH AND THEY WILL BE UNABLE TO ANSWER THEM! THEY DO NOT KNOW ANSWERS TO EASY QUESTIONS AND THEY HAVE NO WORTH WHILE SYSTEM OPERATIONS. I HAVE RESEARCHED THEIR WEBSITE AND THEY HAVE GATHERED INFORMATION FROM THE INTERNET TO PUT ON THEIR OWN WEBSITE. USE YOUR OWN INFORMATION. GET A REAL SYSTEM. YOU WOULD BE BETTER OFF STARTING A COFFEE BUSINESS YOURSELF.

...just had their Cuppy's Texas site pull down this page entirely this afternoon:

This image is what they didn't want anyone seeing...too late

These crooks can run from the truth all they want, but they can't hide! We all know Cuppy's was formerly Java Jo'z and taking that page down doesn't make it any less true.

Has anyone done any real research beyond “looking” at just the website before you start blasting and possibly ruining the lives and businesses of those that have not had this problem? 

I am not going to sit here and try to defend either side of the lost money issue. If you lost and were screwed out of $30k, I feel for you….I really do.  I would be upset and doing everything possible to get my money back if there was a legal road to walk down.  But, on the same token, as others have said, if you gave money without having your documents reviewed…shame on you.

So, here is a little skinny from a former Java Jo’z (license) owner now Cuppy’s store owner (franchisee). And by the way, a few months ago, I purchased my 2nd Cuppy’s franchise.  I am tired of seeing all of this bad information floating around with the possibility that most of you actually have never walked into the corporate office of Cuppy’s Coffee. 

First off…..Java Jo’z was NEVER intended to be a franchise…they never sold franchise’s. One would think that with all of the “legal eagles” we have out here ranting….this would have been one of the first things discovered.  I bought a license from Java Jo’z just like everyone else did.  There is a huge difference between how a franchise works and how a licensee company works.  Let’s get that straight right from the start.

Next, if anyone would have taken the time and had done some real research this is what they would have found: This past year Robert Morgan bought all of the assets of Java Jo’z Coffee & More Inc. from Roy & Kim Snowden (owners of Java Jo’z). He did not buy “the company” (as a matter of fact, the company Java Jo’z Coffee & More Inc. still exists).  New companies were formed off of that concept…. Cuppy’s Coffee & Elite Manufacturing as well as other companies.  

As for Cuppy’s being in the same offices, that’s what happens when a new company assumes the lease. I believe by purchasing the assets he had the option to use the same computers, utilize the same personnel, the same phone system, etc.  Call me silly, but if you have an awesome concept and a great vision….why re-invent the wheel? Now, as I understand it, part of this agreement was that the Java Jo’z store owners that were out across the nation would still have someone behind them with some corporate purchasing power. (Being a new company…did they need to do that…I don’t think so?)  That is why you see mirror images of the specialtycoffeecoop.com website and other parts of the website.

Now getting onto the subject of the awesome personal website that Mike Wallace setup for himself in Texas, sure he probably is not “really” supposed to have that site up now that we are franchised….but he is lucky enough to have it. Oh yeah, it sure is nice of everyone out there to point that out for him.  I bet he really appreciates that.  If he opened as a Java Jo’z store and then converted to a Cuppy’s store…. at his level as a store owner what is so wrong with saying that he was “formerly Java Jo’z”?  I don’t get it? I am “formerly” Java Jo’z.

Like I said in the beginning…if you are legally owed money….by all means, get it.  But, get it from those who owe it to you!  I don’t understand why you can so easily bash a franchise company you have not dealt with? Maybe you should actually go down to Fort Walton Beach, walk into the Cuppy’s corporate office where there are now over 100 dedicated and hardworking people with families. Look them in the eyes and explain why you feel it’s necessary to pull them into something that they have had nothing to do with.  Explain to them how they are responsible for something that happened to you while you were contracting with a different company. 

At one time in this process YOU saw the opportunity this concept has, or you would not have given a down payment right?  Well, we…..are still out here……OUR stores ARE open!!  Maybe you should think about that before you start typing next time. Why are you so willing to crush the dreams of those of us that are out here who believe in the company we “FRANCHISED” with CUPPY’S COFFEE!

Oh by the way…now that I have done some “due diligence” research on my end concerning the company you are attacking…..my franchisor.  To those of you asking for your money back…..  Did you do everything you were supposed to do in the contract you signed?  Or are you just giving up and jumping on the “give me my money back” bandwagon?

Mr. Blue MauMau:  When I started this thread it was as a news story, but seems to have grown to a forum topic.  Sorry.  I'm not quite sure where to post which items, but I'll use my blog page in the future.

 Insider Guest:  I appreciate the plight of a franchisee having to operate under the bad press of their franchisor's troubled past.  If only for marketing and brand building purposes, it would be wise for you and the other Cuppy's franchisees to urge your franchisor to help mitigate the damage caused to those who allegedly gave their money in good faith to the same executives - sans Snowden - who are running Cuppy's.  If these allegations are correct, people like Ben Scoble and others paid for the assets now owned by Cuppy's.  Perhaps you could convince the franchisor to allocate some of the money they are spending in franchise advertising to repaying some of those who lost their downpayments.  A good faith effort could possibly even turn some of these potential litigants into Cuppy's franchisees.

I'm no "legal eagle," but I believe that your characterization of franchising vs. licensing is incorrect.  Franchising is a type of licensing - they are not exclusive.  And if Java Jo'z was charging a fee, operating under a common name and exerting a measure of operational control, there's a good chance it was a franchise no matter what they called it.  Also, Mike Wallace's website refers to the entire Cuppy's system as "formerly Java Jo'z" not his particular location.

Sean Kelly
seankelly@ideafarm.net

IdeaFarm
Franchisor Marketing ,  FranBest

I’ve stayed out of the Cuppy’s/Java Joe debacle up until now….WHY because to be honest I know nothing about either one.  Up until today what I knew about the two was pretty much limited to that which I’d read here at Bluemaumau.  For the most part that was limited to one or more ‘Guest’ slinging a lot of mud -- right or wrong I don’t know.  Up until last night it sounded pretty much like one or more franchisees/licensees complaining.  THE PAST.

Last night another ‘Guest’ who claimed to be a Cuppy’s franchisee posted a heartfelt message which accurately communicated a viewpoint.  That view point was simply ‘Hey—if you lost money I’m sorry, but I’ve got my money on the line right now…I’m trying to make money …. and your complaining is costing me money.  They went on to say that the guest who were doing the complaining were to some degree uninformed, or that their information was outdated.  THE PRESENT.

Today, it appears as though a Cuppy’s corporate person provided a response.  Good for them, even though it turned into more of an advertisement for selling/converting franchisees vs. a here’s the scoop, we’ve inherited a problem and here’s how we propose to fix the problem, signed by Mr. Joe President of Cuppy’s with personal contact information for resolving any and all problems.  THE FUTURE.

So based on the tiny bit of verifiable factual information provided, I took a look at the Nevada Secretary of States website and searched out Medina Enterprises were we learn that the corporate entity was formed 12/16/2003 and is Active and in good standing.  Their officers all have the last name of Morgan (Alyssa R, Christina F, and Robert C) and use the address of 2533 N. Carson St, Carson City, NV  89706.  This address is also the address of their Resident Agent Laughlin International, Inc.  When you view all the companies which Laughlin serves as resident agent there are MANY!!!!.  When you view the records for Laughlin International, Inc. you find that a Lee Morgan held all the officer positions AND they were dissolved on 4/24/2002.  However they may somehow be tied to Laughlin & Associates, Inc. at the same 2533 N. Carson address whose file date is 3/25/77 and are currently an active NV corporation with Michelle Young holding all officers positions.  If you jump over to the Florida Secretary of State site and take a look at Medina Enterprises you find that they’re active as a Foreign Profit corporation (Date Filed 5/8/06) with a principle address of 348 Miracle Strip Parkway SW, BLDG D Suite 16A, FT. Walton Beach FL  32548.  Robert C. Morgan listed as both Registered Agent and Officer/Director.  Now if you go to www.Medinamgt.com you find listings for Cuppy’s, Specialty Coffee Coop, Elite Manufacturing, and Planet Popolicious.  What does all of this mean?  Well, hmmmm I don’t know.  It could mean exactly what the ‘current franchisee’ and the ‘corporate office’ said it meant that they purchased the assets of a company and apparently did not do their due-diligence to uncover the mess that they’d soon have on their hands.  It could be that they did know of the mess, thusly why they acquired the ‘Assets’ and not the business and liabilities.  It could be as some suggest a big CONSPIRACY.  As for the fact that some former employees of the acquired company were retained, is not unusual and in fact prudent, and does not in and of itself make it a conspiracy.

Now for what “I do know” but first for what those of your reading this now know.  You now know who the ‘Horse’ is and how to go straight to the ‘Horses’ mouth.  Most likely what you’re going to find is that there is now a company who acquired assets, but not liabilities thusly meaning your ‘Beef’ is with Snowden and can only be resolved by Snowden, but that entity probably went bankrupt after selling off the assets.  You’ll probably find that the new entity acquired the assets has NO legal liability to you.  You’ll probably find that many of the former employees are with the new company. 

As for what I know, the one item that JUMPED out at me was Planet Popolicious, which was founded by Lee Washington and his wife of Waco, TX.  Lee and his wife are good, honest, Christian people.  I do not know if they’ve retained interest in Planet Popolicious or if Medina Enterprises also acquired them and or their assets.  I also know Jerry Aurthur, who was VP of Sales for Planet Popolicious.  Again I don’t know if Jerry is still associated with Planet Popolicious or not, but he is very talented in building, growing and supporting franchise systems.

And finally, for one last thing I do know.  Ruining the lives of existing Cuppy’s franchisees isn’t going to help you regain your lost funds.  I know you’re upset and you’re trying to prevent anyone else from being ripped off, however you’ve first got to determine IF the risk of fraud, theft, misrepresentation is the same as it was at the time you handed over your funds.  If there is a NEW CONCEPT with Ownership committed to building and growing the system, sabotaging that system is not going to benefit anyone or help you recover monies which you may be owed.

There has been much discussion about the Pro’s and Con’s of Anonymity.  However, it’s difficult for anyone to tell how many people are saying what, when everyone has the name GUEST.  If you’re serious about making a difference, and there are many of you register under a pseudonym so that we can see and know who we are speaking with and who is speaking, Even if it’s as simple as RippedOffZee1, RippedOffZee2, HappyZee1, HappyZee2.

If you’ve been ripped off there are many people here who might be willing to help you, if you have the right attitude.  If you want/need help there are many people here who might be willing to help you.  But if you just want to complain for the sake of complaining….make it known that that’s really all you want to do….after all that is a form of therapy, however if your serious about overcoming whatever situation you’re faced with you’ve got to open your eyes, your ears and your MIND!

Believe & Succeed,
FranSynergy
Synergizing Franchising 1 Franchisee at a time!
www.fransynergy.com

I've been reading this discussion and as someone that worked for a franchisor, I think I know the basic rules of the UFOC and the legalities behind it.

 According to Cuppy's own web-site, they had a franchise ready to open in June 2006 in Houma (not sure which state), per their own press release dated May 23, 2006.  How can a company that was organized on May 31, 2006 be able to sell franchises before they have organized?  I'm guessing that a relevant UFOC wasn't prepared by May 23rd.  In addition, I know that there are time frames that a UFOC has to be held by a franchisee before they can sign the document. 

 I'm going based on the UFOC that was posted on the California web-site, but isn't it also required that you state every employee that may have contact with the franchisee in the approval process included?  Mr. Doyle was not included in the UFOC, yet there is a May 15th press release with his name on it. 

 I'm no lawyer, but my knowledge of the UFOC was to disclose everything possible to cover your company in the case of a lawsuit.  In this case (unless they've updated their UFOC and disclosed all unopened franchisees), I would think that they've left a good deal out of the UFOC that should've been included.

I could be wrong, but that's how I understood things with my prior company.  If I'm wrong, please correct my inaccuracies.

Great writeup from the brother of somebody else ripped off by Java Jo'z. There's no mention of Ben Doyle in this article, which shows he isn't the only unscrupulous piece of dirt infesting 348 Miracle Strip Parkway in Fort Walton Beach.

http://itmanager.blogs.com/notes/2007/01/why_java_joz_pr.html

Apparently Cuppy's is not happy with the MauMau community, and their law firm (Nixon Peabody) emailed me a letter a few minutes ago.

If anyone knows how to post a pdf attachment, I would be happy to post a copy of the letter. If anyone wants me to email them a copy, drop me a line.

And I would invite Mr. Zappia to post the letter himself. Let the sun shine in!

Parenthetically, for those who have wondered why people post anonymously, this is why. I am not intimidated by lawyers, but some people might be.

--Paul Steinberg, pwsteinberg@msn.com

Okay folks.  I'm an inside employee.  I was hired as an employee for Java Joz.  I am now with Cuppy's.  I read all these posts and see this unfair portrayal happening.   Do not believe all the trash talk.  It's easy to hide behind a 'guest' comment and put your attack dogs on this company, knowing they cant fight back.   Some of you are playing dirty, and you know it.  Shame on you.  This company is trying to take the high road by not snipping back at every untrue accusation.  Why give these untruths power by addressing them.  Through my employment with both companies, I have only seen things done professionally and with integrity.  This is what I know as truth…. I see people working long days, and long nights to service the franchisees.   I see an on site day care that is offered for free to all the employees. I see 100 + employees who have heart and truly want to help people.  I see a hard working real estate department busting their butts looking for good locations. I see the finance department on the phones trying to help these people get funded. I see the marketing department developing clever and inexpensive ways to help these franchisees make a better life for themselves.  I see the truth..We are helping people.   Every person in that company works so hard to help these people.  It's unfair to let all these absurd postings appear as if no one tried to help the Java Joz owners.   Do you people realize all your references and snide connections are affecting these people’s lives.    It’s affecting my life.  You are trying to bring down a good company.If you really have a problem, call them up and say as much.  Go see them.  Go see them now. Don’t say ‘I already went’.   It’s a different company. It’s not Java Joz.    I work with smart, enthusiastic, people.   Not uneducated youth and old crooks.  I am lucky to be employed there,  and I freakin love my job!   Don’t be deceived by all this ridiculous crap flying around the Internet.    You want the truth, go see the company for yourself.