Cuppy's Update: Has Hell Frozen Over?

Posted Mon, 2007/05/07 - 17:47 by Paul Steinberg

There Is Hope for Cuppy's Coffee and Newer Systems in Franchising Right

Never thought I'd say it, but...

Went down to the AAFD meeting. Got sick and missed the second day, but before that I had a chance to meet with the Cuppy's folks and to talk with the AAFD about why they were giving Cuppy's an award.

I went in with doubts, but I came away impressed. The franchisor had in attendence key people including Hibbing and Mrs. Morgan. They went out of their way to introduce themselves and speak with their critics (including yours truly), at length and with candor. Mrs. Morgan's acceptance speech at the awards dinner was genuine, and she's quite a schmoozer in person. Of course, image only goes so far, but...

More to the point, the new Franchise Agreement (not the current one) is almost fully compliant with the AAFD fair franchising standards; that in itself is better than most franchisors can say. The receptiveness of the franchisor to working with the AAFD to turn over a new leaf is one which will hopefully be emulated by other franchisors.

In hindsight, Cuppy's was poorly served by their professional advisors; the problems this franchisor encountered were both forseeable and (to a great extent) avoidable. Take-away is that:

(1) when in doubt, disclose, and

(2) structuring something as an asset purchase agreement does not mean that you are necessarily clear of the seller's liabilities. (Some might add another lesson: sometimes it is counter-productive to sic lawyers on your critics rather than set forth a reasoned explanation of your position.)

The first point is often forgotten by franchisors who ask their legal counsel "Do we have to disclose that....?" If you have to ask a question that starts that way, the answer should be evident. Particularly in the internet age, any past history is going to quickly come to light. In the case of this franchisor, it was the perception of a less-than-forthcoming UFOC disclosure (coupled with the ham-handed tenor of Mr. Dozier) which led many (myself included) to believe that something was amiss.

The second point on the risk of asset purchase agreements is of some importance to franchisees, who often use asset purchase agreements; know your seller and you should always have a discussion with your attorney about purchasing assets, particularly where the Seller may have creditors or pending judgments, and/or where you as the Buyer have some links to the Seller such as business or familial ties.

Where the Cuppy's story diverges from the usual is in Cuppy's decision to make a turn to transparency and collaboration with their franchisees. Time will tell, but it seemed to me that the company has not only made concrete steps but is truly proud of the AAFD award and committed to continuing down the path to full accreditation, which will require the voting support of the Cuppy's franchisees.

Hell may not have frozen over, but I will say that Cuppy's has a good chance at being a success story and model for the franchise industry. The AAFD and Cuppy's have a lot at stake in the success of this new franchise agreement; let's hope for the best.

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57 Comments

REFUND by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Tue, 2008/06/10 - 05:32.

Hey Dale, All I want is my $51,900 back. I was told before I ever sent Cuppy's a dollar that if I didn't get financed I would get every dollar back. I wasn't told minus the franchise fee. If I would have been told that I would of never sent a dollar. I would have waited until I got approved before I sent any money. Who would take a $15,000 gamble of getting approved? Would you? Then even when Cuppy's does pay people back it's in payments. I was giving deadlines when Cuppy's wanted my money. This has been the worst experience in my life. I'm not in here to say anything bad about you here. Just put yourself in my shoes for a minute. If you were out $51,900 and I didn't return your money how would you feel? Hope To hear from you soon, John

Re: REFUND by Truth in Franchising

Submitted by Truth in Franchising on Tue, 2008/06/10 - 10:30.

Hey John! What did the agreement you signed say about refunds?

The Truth Shall Set You Free!

TIF

The Truth Shall Set You Free!

TIF

Yes it has frozen over! by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Thu, 2008/05/15 - 21:16.

Cuppy's needs to get more than a new owner. They need all new staff, new systems- nothing is working. I feel so sorry for the people that have chosen to go with such an immature company.

Frozen Over by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Fri, 2008/05/16 - 03:44.

"They need all new staff, new systems- nothing is working." Do you ACTUALLY know anything about the company, the staff, or the systems other than what you read on BMM? Are you a Cuppy's franchisee? IF NOT, this is the most idiotic, asinine OPINION. This doesn't even qualify as a statement. IF all you know is what you read on BMM, making this statement might as well be "There is life on Saturn!", because you read that somewhere on the internet! IF you are a franchisee, please give specific examples and proof. No where in this thread have I seen specific statements regarding issues with the staff, other than the previous owners, or the systems.

Insane Opinion, who wrote this has their foot in their mouth by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Tue, 2008/06/10 - 14:31.

Why don't you check out the statement just made about another refund request.... If your systems were working than there would be no problem with being approved first before taking someone's money. And yes there are problems with your systems all over the place- there are tons of things wrong, and the point that upsets EVERYONE is that you are ruining people's lives. Stop thinking about yourself for a min and see how it hurts the families of others. You could care less if someone fails in business as long as you still get your paycheck. Let me guess what your reply to anything...... New cups!

Frozen Response by FranSynergy

Submitted by FranSynergy on Fri, 2008/05/16 - 08:57.

As much as I'd like to respond to each and every comment regarding Cuppy's I do not have the time, nor would it be wise to do so. However, this is one which I'd like to provide a short response.

I can agree with some of both guest's comments. I wholeheartedly agree that the company needs and must have more than just new ownership. It has been approximately 20 business days since I acquired Cuppy's, and just 18 if you exclude the day of acquisition and today which has hardly begun. In this relatively short period of time, numerous employees have been terminated and more than a million dollars per year has been cut from the company's operating expenses. In the coming weeks and months there will be more cuts, a few new hires, and many new systems, processes and procedures implemented.

Not withstanding any of the above, the company has a very good product, both from a consumer perspective and an investment perspective. The company has MANY employees who posses substantial knowledge, skills and abilities along with the interest and commitment to helping each and every franchisee to succeed, in their business.

I've stated our objectives very clearly, and quite simply. We will curtail sales, we will focus on opening sold but unopened stores and help every store increase their bottom line profitability. The cuts which have been made and that will be made, are being made in order to strengthen the company and to allow us to deal with mission critical issues like opening stores, improving systems, and providing refunds to those who are entitled to such.

The company did not get into it's current position overnight, and we will not resolve all issues overnight....however, I will tell you now, and my team will show you in the coming weeks and months that we are committed to resolving each and every issue which we are faced with, in a fair and equitable manner, and to building a brand that is both respected and trusted.

Believe & Succeed,
Dale Nabors,

Believe & Succeed,
Dale
FranSynergy, Inc.
Synergizing Franchising!
www.fransynergy.com

Stay far away from Cuppy's by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Wed, 2008/06/11 - 15:16.

I have a question for you, how does firing all those employees help the franchisees? It doesn't. It helps in helping pay ALL the people refunds and your employees salaries because you don't have money to pay them. You keep talking about a good product... I have seen Cuppy's in the US near small mom and pop coffee shops, and the mom and pop shop does better- if the product is so good- why are they going elsewhere? I am not going to spend a lot of time on here either- it is a waste to even get on here to talk about such an uneducated company. If anyone that is looking into franchising has any common sense, they would stay far away from Cuppy's.

Words mean a lot...as does inaction by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Fri, 2008/05/16 - 11:43.

This comment has been moved here.

Cuppy's to be profiled by Paul Steinberg

Submitted by Paul Steinberg on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 15:16.

A major trade publication is working on an update to the Cuppy's story, which I understand will be out later this month. I do not know what will be printed, but the reporter has been speaking with all of the players and that may be one of the reasons for renewed interest in this topic.

I am not blind to the Java Joz issues. In fact, I was the one who got a threatening call from John Dozier and an amusing letter from Nixon Peabody when I raised legal issues relating to the asset conveyance. I was also the one who had anonymous bloggers trying to dig up dirt and post it on this site and on FranchisePick ; postings which were traced back to an internet server near Ft. Walton.

I am not an idiot, nor dazzled by a good pr show. Rather, my change in outlook regarding Cuppy's is due to their willingness to make substantive change, including their work with Mr. Purvin and the AAFD board in order to bring the Cuppy's franchise agreement into conformance with AAFD Fair Franchising Standards.

There were (and apparently, remain) issues relating to Java Joz. There are also sector-specific issues relating to the difficulty in breakfast-centric concepts and coffee concepts expanding their market. People look at Dunkin' and Starbucks and don't realize how difficult that is.

So, I am hardly saying to run out and buy a Cuppy's franchise. What I am saying is that Cuppy's has made changes, and I am of the opinion that the company culture and company policy has changed for the better. Some on this board harshly criticized the past behavior of this zor (and rightly so) but don't want to allow for the possibility that people can change their behavior.

That's illogical and unfair.

Paul Steinberg, Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400

Paul & Cuppy's by FranSynergy

Submitted by FranSynergy on Mon, 2007/05/07 - 18:30.

Paul:

Nice piece. Well written. Good points, fair and factual. For me personally it goes a long way in restoring the respect which I had for you, but which had, to a large degree, gotten lost or misplaced in large part because of the Cuppy's controversy.

I'm glad that the Cuppy's Story is moving in the direction in which I originally thought that it ultimately would. There are many lessons for many people to be learned from the Cuppy's story. Lessons for franchisors, franchisees, consultants, advisors, bloggers, by-standers, attorneys, prospective franchisees, and business buyer's and sellers.

I met the people of Cuppy's, many months ago. I found that in the midst of their enthusastic acquisition and launch of the Cuppy's franchise they did indeed make many mistakes. Not out of malice, but out of a lack of knowledge, fear, and passion. I found the key players, and most of the staff to be honest, reputable, enthusiastic, caring people with good intentions. Of course we've all heard about the road paved with good intentions.

I've intentionally remained silent on the Cuppy's controversy because I felt that any comments which I might have made, would have been used some to fuel a fire, that should have never been started. Now that the TRUTH is coming out I'll say this: Cuppy's coffee has a DAMN GOOD Retail Product, and a very good franchise product. It is too early to say if Cuppy's will be the next BIG THING or Not. Only time will tell if Cuppy's can continue to maintain the right mix of support and growth. For anyone considering a 'Coffee Franchise', and there are many of them out there, Cuppy's Coffee & More should be at the top of the list for consideration.

Paul: we were in the early stages of developing what I considered to be a 'Professional Friendship' when it began to be divided by our differing opinions regarding Cuppy's. Now that the Cuppy's Chrisis Chapter, has been brought to a close, I'd like to extend my hand to you out of professional respect in the hopes that we might let the past be --- the past.

Believe & Succeed,
Dale
FranSynergy, Inc.
Synergizing Franchising!

Believe & Succeed,
Dale
FranSynergy, Inc.
Synergizing Franchising!
www.fransynergy.com

CUPPY'S COFFEE AND MORE by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Sat, 2007/06/02 - 08:07.

Before you start celebrating how great Cuppy's is, you need to hear the truth which is our story. We have been dealing with them before they were Cuppys. They were Java Jo'z even though they try to pretend they were never associated with them, only rescued them. However they spin it, it is the same disfunctional organization. They have poor communication skills, poor organizational skills and no public relation skills at all. They hire poor contractors, people who can't think or follow through on anything. The best they have going for them is good salesmen and promises they do not keep. Becareful before you give them money. We did all the right things. We took the contract to our attorney and still they managed to screw us rightiously. We are still in the coffee business and still dealing with them to complete our project which has draged on for almost a year. They refuse to respond by e-mail, letters or telephone calls even though they owe us a great deal of services. I am not alone. I know others who are still in business but no longer associated with them who had similar experiences. Some who are recent Cuppys owners will also agree. Buyer Beware!!! Can't say you didn't know. BEVERLY OROURKE bobobeverly@ca.rr.com

Yeah so good it was removed by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Wed, 2008/06/11 - 15:18.

Dale, get a life- that comment was removed! No need to try and get people on your side now, too late for that!

The only way by Barbara Jorgensen

Submitted by Barbara Jorgensen on Wed, 2008/05/07 - 12:16.

Cuppy's will get a good name again is to give people their money back. They should of never cashed any of the money without an agreement.

I don't understand what there is to discuss. The only thing to discuss is the people getting their money back.

I agree with Richard I doubt that the people will get any money back. I hope Cuppy's will surprise all of us.

Tons to discuss by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Wed, 2008/05/07 - 12:27.

There is A LOT to discuss. People looking into the coffee business need to be aware. I looked on the internet and saw all kinds of Cuppy's Stores closed. About 4 months ago I was in Texas and saw two stores closed when I was traveling on business. People need to invest in a company that has a great reputation and that will profit. I saw a lady in Arlington that couldn't even afford her rent. This is sad and people need to know.

Yes people need to be aware by Barbara Jorgensen

Submitted by Barbara Jorgensen on Wed, 2008/05/07 - 12:43.

but obviously the corporation is dragging their feet to resolve these issues. What I meant is that Cuppy's should not have anything to discuss but to do what is right and refund the money.

I don't understand how they can get away with unethical business behavior. Which will hurt the corporation and the word will get out and has got out on the internet. This should be major news on television but I haven't seen it broadcast. Why?

Cuppy's Product? by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Wed, 2008/05/07 - 11:49.

I laugh at the comments made by Dale regarding the Cuppy's Product. I believe anyone can order those products off the internet..... People need to think about starting their own licensing company and using the same items, it is fair and cheaper! I wouldn't even waste your time inquiring.

Actions speaking by Paul Steinberg

Submitted by Paul Steinberg on Mon, 2007/05/07 - 19:28.

What changed my mind was quite specifically their record-high score from the AAFD, and the fact that their people (in particular Mrs. Morgan and the in-house counsel) were forthcoming in discussing what happened and why. Mrs. Morgan may be a nice person and entertaining dinner-table companion, but from a franchise perspective I was more interested in hearing about adherence to AAFD standards.

Frankly, I am (pleasantly) surprised at the direction which the company took. In discussing last week some of the mis-steps that occurred when the story originally broke, I became surprised that they let some of their hired advisors take them down a "scorched-earth" path. We all make mistakes, and sometimes it is necessary to ignore the hired help and just follow our instincts and make things right. When you hire outside counsel who refers to himself on his website as a "bull" and a "hired gun", you are asking for war, not resolution.

One of the most optimistic signs is precisely that in the wake of being so poorly-advised, the company principals seem to be more willing to give direction to their hired advisors in accord with the company philosophy, and their philosophy seems to be more collaborative than litigious... regardless of what a litigator may tell you, sometimes Grandma was right about catching more flies with honey than vinegar. Nuclear litigation (or threats thereof) is quite often not the best approach.

The larger question for me is whether a successful turn-around will encourage other franchisors to consider adherence to Fair Franchising standards. Purvin has a lot at stake here, given the scepticism that greeted the AAFD decision. I think Purvin made the right decision, but it was and remains a risky one.

Paul Steinberg, Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400

U R NUTS by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 04:33.

Dale: You are WRONG. Call owners, current and former. Search hard for those former owners - they are the ones who know the truth. Ever wonder how or why there even are "former" owners??? Put the whole puzzle together before you tell people this is a franchise that "should be at the top of the list for consideration." If you're so confident, pony up YOUR money and open a Cuppy's store. DO NOT GIVE CUPPY's ONE RED CENT! All smoke and mirrors - all lies.

Cuppy's Purchasing Co-op by Bob Frankman

Submitted by Bob Frankman on Mon, 2007/05/07 - 20:05.

If hell has frozen over, I have a warm parka that Paul can borrow. I congratulate Cuppy's and renew my respect of Paul for keeping an open mind. Speaking of Cuppy's, does anyone know any specifics about the purchasing co-op they are doing?

You are Dispensing BAD Advice Paul by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 04:10.

You better do some more research before you begin praising these people - they are liars. I don't know anything about how the AAFD rates organization, but they got this one DEAD WRONG. These people are liars beyond belief. Before you say one more word about how great these people are do some research into the former Cuppy's store in N. TX. It is now Three Lumps Coffee. Hmmmmm....what went wrong there??? Find out what happened there before you tell people that there is hope for Cuppy's. There is no hope for the wicked.

My kids would agree! by FranSynergy

Submitted by FranSynergy on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 07:10.

Dear Guest:

Welcome to BlueMaumau! The venue for talking about all things related to franchising. A place where anyone can come in and say anything, about anybody, at anytime, without out facts, under the disquise of anonymity!

You come in and post 3 slams inside of 45 minutes against 1 franchisor within a thread that for the most part some 5 months old. You make NO point, share no facts ---- just slam - slam - slam!

You indicate that you did not buy into this concept and that is fine. So, what is the need for anonoymity? For all anyone knows you may be their competition playing "dirty pool". How is one to know? You make NO valid and substantiated points.

I do not know the people who owned the concept prior to it being acquired. I have had an opportunty to meet with it's current ownership. I have had a chance to meet with the support team, many of whom worked for previous ownership. I have had an opportunity to talk with current franchisees as well as current and past licensees of the prior concept. I have had a chance to talk with some of the individuals who became 'trapped' in the middle of the company being acquired.

I can not speak with first hand knowledge about the concept before it was acquired by its current ownership. I can however say without hesitation that under current ownership they have a GREAT retail product. They have a good and improving franchise product. They've invested a lot into maintaining and improving the franchise offering, under some most unusual, difficult and trying times. They have the highest percentage of support personnel to franchisee of any franchisor I've ever seen. Are they perfect, NO! Do they care about their franchiseees, YES! Are they trying to do the right things, YES!

If you have FACTS that can be substantiated that are relevant to its current ownership, then state them. Past ownership is not relevant. If you have an opinion - then state your opinion - as opinion. It is not appropriate to state your opinions as fact. It is not appropriate to make anonymous - negative statements- with ZERO verifiable proof.

I may be NUTS (my kids would agree with you). Paul WAS NOT dispensing bad advice, but sharing his opinion about the steps being taken by this franchisor to clean up the mess and confusion which resulted from the acquisition, and rapid growth. Go enjoy a good cup of coffee at your favorite coffee shop. I encourage you to comeback and participate in our discussions regarding franchising, without - attacking other posters or franchisors when you have no reason for doing so or facts to support your position. Until then....

Believe & Succeed,
Dale
FranSynergy, Inc.
Synergizing Franchising!
www.fransynergy.com

Point of law by Paul Steinberg

Submitted by Paul Steinberg on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 16:31.

Dale writes: If you have FACTS that can be substantiated that are relevant to its current ownership, then state them. Past ownership is not relevant.

Not true. Indeed, this case illustrates, inter alia, the need to check out the Seller of the assets which you are purchasing. Simply denominating a contract as an Asset Purchase Agreement instead of Stock Purchase Agreement does not make it so. In addition, under state law you as the acquiring entity may be liable for the obligations of the Seller, including sales taxes collected and wage and hour monies owed by the Seller.

The pedigree of your assets is important--perform due diligence on your Seller.

Paul Steinberg, Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400

Caped Cuppy's by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Mon, 2007/05/07 - 22:25.

Now that the general consensus is that Cuppy's is faster than a speeding bullet and leaps tall buildings in a single bound it would be nice to seem them appear on the list of Franchisors providing Item 19 info

Whack Again by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 09:04.

"[Blue MauMau] A place where anyone can come in and say anything, about anybody, at anytime, without out facts, under the disquise of anonymity!" Whack! Whack! FranSynergy whacks Blue MauMau again.

Cuppy's N. Texas by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 09:43.

"Before you say one more word about how great these people are do some research into the former Cuppy's store in N. TX. It is now Three Lumps Coffee. Hmmmmm....what went wrong there???"

Good. This is specific information, not just an accusation. I assume that Cuppy's didn't make it in Northern Texas. Anyone know what happened? There's also a store owner who posted 30 days ago who issued a word of warning about Cuppy's. See here.

Shame, Shame, Shame by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 12:38.

First let me say this. Anybody considering Cuppy's should stop. Do not listen to these guys, they know not of what they speak. It is great that Dale and Paul have settled their disagreements, but there are many people out there still dealing with the mess that Cuppy's left (**). It seems incredibly irresponsible to me for people who run franchise information websites to appear so subjective without all the facts. There are potentially influencing 100's of people to invest their time and money in a company that has not proven itself to be anything but controversial. As far as Cuppy's having a great product, the great products are Monin, Ghirardelli, and Caffe d' Arte Coffee. Things that anyone coffee shop can purchase on their own. Someone mentioned there co-op too. If you want to pay WAY TOO MUCH for product, be billed immediately and not receive your goods for weeks on end because they are "back ordered" all the time, knock yourself out and use them. Second, perhaps that anonymity is there for legal reasons. Perhaps facts and specifics will emerge when appropriate. If you want facts, here are just two little examples from our almost 2 years in dealing with these people: 1 - When Cuppy's bought the assets of Java Jo'z in May 2006, nobody bothered to tell Java Jo'z licensees why the name change really happened. FACT, Robert Morgan told this owner specifically that the name change was due to "name right" issues with a Canadian company. He told this owner that s/he could keep the Java Jo'z name, but that all Java Jo'z stores will be converted to Cuppy's eventually. It wasn't until January, seven months later, when all this hit the fan on this very website that we discovered the truth. Cuppy's ownership and representatives told this owner a lie to deceive him/her into becoming a Cuppy's - plain and simple. This sounds like deceptive business practices to me. Mr. Morgan was specifically asked why the name changed and what this owner's standing was in terms of licensing agreement, etc. He chose to tell a lie; a lie that led to this owner making business decisions based on bogus information that ultimately cost him/her tens of thousands of dollars. Had this owner been told the truth in June 2006, s/he would not be in the position s/he is in now. 2 - Cuppy's allowed our finishout to take more than six months. All parties agreed that 80 days was sufficient. In fact, construction for us didn't even begin until 10 days before we were supposed to open! You may say, "well you were a Java Jo'z person, Cuppy's had no obiligation to you." WRONG. The moment they lied to this owner and led him/her to believe the two companies were the same, they became responsible for ensuring our project was completed on time. Mr. Morgan had no qualms about calling us to collect money, so they should have been equally diligent in finishing our project. If you want more facts, stay tuned. As soon as this owner receives permission from his/her attorney, s/he will post all you want right here. It will have more than enough information to demonstrate that Cuppy's is certainly not what they seem. In the meantime, this owner urges Dale and Paul to tread lightly and not dispense advice about something with which they are not fully acquainted.

Facts, Opinions & Whacks by FranSynergy

Submitted by FranSynergy on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 09:36.

Is it true? Is it verifiable? Is it within the realm of understanding? Is it what the fact based conclusion that most anyone might conclude? If so, it is not a WHACK, it is simply the way it is, and that in and of itself is not a bad thing.

The BlueMaumau community will grow and become a much more valuable resource and viable business model as individual posters take more accountability and responsibility for their own postings.

To state that so and so is Evil, a Crook, a bad concept etc (without stating specific reasons for saying so .... is a whack! [PERIOD].

To state that "in my opinion...", "in my experience...", "I've learned that...", "my research has indicated ...." AND here's why and state first hand knowledge or verifiable fact IS NOT a whack!

FACT is: Bluemaumau is a place where anyone can come in and say anything, about anybody, at anytime, without facts, under the disquise of anonymity!"

My Opinion: "The above FACTS work to the advantage and dis-advantage of BlueMaumau AND the community will only be as good as the cumulative contributions of its participants.

Believe & Succeed,
Dale
FranSynergy, Inc.
Synergizing Franchising!
www.fransynergy.com

Zee's change Brands! by FranSynergy

Submitted by FranSynergy on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 10:03.

N. Texas - Who knows? If you know - report it! If you don't why bring it up? And what does it have to do with anything. A franchise sometimes goes out of business. Franchisees often change brands. If anything it would appear that the N. Texas location was able to switch brands and remain operating as a viable business. Based on that fact, it would seem as though the zee was dealing with a fair franchisor! With many concepts they would have been unable to open under a different brand at the same location, using the same equipment etc....

As for the previous post which you referenced, you might like to read the post again. You'll see that it was filled with unsubstantiated and subjective opinion. I will give that poster credit for APPARENTLY providing a name and email address. So if you're interested in their 'subjective' opinion then why don't you contact them. You might also NOTE that they were tied in at the acquisition point where there was lot's of confusion between the current and previous ownership, which has been readily admitted.

Believe & Succeed,
Dale
FranSynergy, Inc.
Synergizing Franchising!
www.fransynergy.com

More Cuppys questions... by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Wed, 2007/09/19 - 14:54.

Has anyone ever asked why Robert Morgan hides the fact that he owns Elite Manufacturing, the PREFERRED vendor for Cuppys? They are located in the same buildings, and when a franchisee goes on a tour of the corp. office- Elite HIDES! Robert Morgan is monopolizing the franchise industry! Who knows what else he owns! I heard from an ex-employee that he uses the down payment money on a new deal to pay the bills and when a franchisee gets fed up and wants their money back- he goes haywire and curses out his employees for messing up the deal(because he has already spent the money)

go to a real court and not court of public opinion by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 13:04.

If you have a legitmate beef seek redress. Futhermore, if your store does not open on time isn't it your fault?

Staying Tuned! by FranSynergy

Submitted by FranSynergy on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 13:06.

When the Attorney says it's okay to talk - then TALK! However, it is still simply talk until the Talk has been PROVEN in a court of law or until enough information is provided to allow the court of "public opinion" to reach an educated and informed opinion.

As for the "name issue" - I can choose to move and tell you that I moved because I wanted my children to go to such-and-such schools AND that can be well-and-true ----- that does not make the fact that I wanted to cash out some equity or move UP or Down any less true.

As for construction overruns - they happen - more often than not. But why did they? What are the FACTS, were there permitting issues, weather issues, contractor delays? WHAT?

I look forward to hearing your facts -- when you have FACTS to report.

Believe & Succeed,
Dale
FranSynergy, Inc.
Synergizing Franchising!
www.fransynergy.com

ROBERT MORGAN??? by RichardSolomon

Submitted by RichardSolomon on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 13:27.

Tell me this aint the Robert Morgan of Aamco Transmissions fame!

Richard Solomon
www.FranchiseRemedies.com

Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com, has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School

REFUND by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Mon, 2008/06/09 - 16:07.

WHAT? by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 13:35.

Very odd. So, we can't talk about our experience and what HAS HAPPENED to us until it's proven in a court of law? What happened to us is not FACT until proven in a court of law? As for the name issue - WE WERE LIED TO AND DECEIVED when we presented Cuppy's with clear, concise and direct questions. Not legal spin on that - it is what it is. I hope Cuppy's is paying you well. You sure are fighting hard for 'em!

Aamaco Morgan by FranSynergy

Submitted by FranSynergy on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 13:38.

No, it isn't. Robert Morgan - Chairman & founder of Aamaco passed away in February 2005 at the age of 87.

Believe & Succeed,
Dale
FranSynergy, Inc.
Synergizing Franchising!
www.fransynergy.com

Anyone Cannot Say Anything by Mr. Blue MauMau

Submitted by Mr. Blue MauMau on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 11:32.

FranSynergy says, "FACT is: Bluemaumau is a place where anyone can come in and say anything, about anybody, at anytime, without facts, under the disquise of anonymity!"

I do not want our readers to become confused. Anyone cannot say anything. Blue MauMau is a moderated site. Postings that break the guidelines (see link below) of our professional social network will either be edited or removed. Writing and content guidelines are found on the footer of every web page on Blue MauMau.

Posting Guidelines to content. (Note: I have specified these before in a number of discussion threads but they are now officially posted in our "Research / resources" area.)
And here our are Citizen Journalism Guidelines, which specifically addresses the content and format of news stories and advice columns that make it to our front page

FranSynergy is quite right in that Blue MauMau WILL NOT remove a post because facts / data have not been specified. We encourage our readers, anonymous or not, to hyperlink to sources / facts and to logically and persuasively lay out their thoughts though. And posters can indeed post at anytime. There are no store closing hours here.

Mr. Blue MauMau
Community Umpire (Moderator)

Soon Enough by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 13:26.

We will deal with our issues in the proper venue and at the proper time. My posts here are simply meant as warnings to others looking at Cuppy's. Buyer Beware. Ask questions. If it doesn't feel right, walk away. As for your question "if your store does not open on time isn't it your fault?" Yeah, it would be if I hired the contractors, if I drew the plans if, in short, I was responsible for all the work. The bottom line is that the contractor chosen by Java Jo'z and Cuppy's to oversee the finishout (hire architects, contractors, etc.) was incapable of doing the work. How often does an architect draw plans for a finishout without ever going into the space? Sound too crazy to be true? Well it's not - it's a fact. When our store opened, our espresso machine wasn't installed or calibrated correctly (missing water softner and filter), our Bunn drip coffee maker wasn't installed at all, the ice maker was shoved into the store room and an ice caddy placed under the coffee grinders as a "suitable workaround." The drawings provided by the contractor and architect omitted key plumbing and electrical elements (hence the Bunn not being installed at all), and the dimensions for the mill work were incorrect, resulting in the ice caddy "workaround." Based on these replies I'm getting, it sure seems like there are quite a few Cuppy's apologists out there. I would venture to say that most, if not all, have never had business dealings with Cuppy's. Either that or they are Cuppy's employees. Just for the record, we have never said one negative word about Cuppy's publicly. We have made a good faith effort to resolve this issue with Cuppy's amicably and fairly. They, however, chose not to return our attorney's phone calls. They have chosen to ignore us and hope that we have neither the stomach nor money to pursue this matter. They are wrong. My complaints to the FTC are being written now and will be filed soon.

You have the contract with the contractor! by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 13:40.

Get the contractor to make it right!

Start-Up BLUES! by FranSynergy

Submitted by FranSynergy on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 13:41.

Again, it sounds as if you got caught up in the middle of the Acquisition.

All the construction related issues are things which happen to us al in starting a business. This is why I say here and elswhere "IN BUSINESS: Everything Costs, twice as much and takes twice as long".

Believe & Succeed,
Dale
FranSynergy, Inc.
Synergizing Franchising!
www.fransynergy.com

Correction! by FranSynergy

Submitted by FranSynergy on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 12:43.

I stand corrected and revise my statement to read:

FACT is: Bluemaumau is a place where anyone can come in and say anything, about anybody, at anytime, without facts, under the disquise of anonymity; provided that they do not Threaten Physical Harm - Use STRONG Profanity or post Pornography or utilize Graphical Sexual Descriptions.

Believe & Succeed,
Dale
FranSynergy, Inc.
Synergizing Franchising!
www.fransynergy.com

Caught in the Middle by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 13:58.

We wouldn't have been caught in the middle of anything if they TOLD THE TRUTH when it happened. Our direction would have been completely different had they fully disclosed the facts. There is no running from that! As for "we have a contract with the contractor" statement - WRONG again. We had a contract with Emerald Coast Manufacturing. They in turn contracted with the sub that caused all the problems. Emerald Coast was essentially dissolved when Medina Enterprises (Morgan) purchased their assets. From that day forward, we were unknowingly dealing with Elite Manufacturing, with whom we had no contract. Cuppy's hid the facts from us and we continued dealing with them and Elite because we simply did not know the truth. We had local architects and contractors ready to do the job, but they refused to use them, instead finding their own (cheaper) people. We are not stupid or naive Dale. We knew going in that there would be delays and problems. Permitting, weather, etc. are fine excuses for construction delays. These delays, however, were simply the result of a contractor and subcontractor not knowing what they were doing - and covering up that fact throughout the entire finishout. For weeks sometimes the local GC sat around waiting for redrawings, etc. How anyone can try to put that on us is beyond me.

Addendum to Dale's "Correction!" by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 14:13.

Dale, Did you accidentally on purpose forget that malicious, disruptive postings, aka spam, are also verboten on Blue MauMau? Jan

If Only by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 14:18.

Gee, I would, but they don't exist anymore. They dissappeared when Medina bought the assets and formed Elite in May 2006. Of course, that didn't stop them from operating under the lie that Emerald existed or stop Elite from collecting money from us that was supposed to be paid to Emerald Coast. I'm done replying to this "guest" who is obviously little more than a Cuppy's corporate shill. Oddly enough this person's line "you have the contract with the contractor" is exactly what Morgan said in a taped voice message I have. Yet another lie. You know, if you tell that lie enough it still doesn't make it true. If Cuppy's is really interested in making things right, as Paul stated, they know our attorney's phone number. Oh the tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive! This could have all been avoided if they just told us the truth!!

Kick the uncontracted contractor out and do it youself by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 14:10.

Oh, but you can't because you are leaving out facts. You do have a contract!

R U a Z-Rube by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 14:11.

did you practice safe franchising?

I wouldn't call your attorney... by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 14:34.

Why don't you call Cuppy's yourself if you really want to resolve the issue or is it you want something more than to open your coffee shop?

If in doubt, disclose by Paul Steinberg

Submitted by Paul Steinberg on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 16:16.

Guest writes: We wouldn't have been caught in the middle of anything if they TOLD THE TRUTH when it happened. Our direction would have been completely different had they fully disclosed the facts. There is no running from that!

I agree, and frankly I wonder about the quality of counsel by whoever did the zor's UFOC. If you need to parse case law and the CFR to decide whether you need to recite historical matters, then put it in and let the regulator tell you it is surplusage.

This is rather like the pizza franchisor from CA which didn't make certain Item 3 disclosures: when people find the facts, people will think you intentionally didn't disclose those facts, and people will ascribe greater import to those facts because you did not disclose.

But that is a bit tangental to your point, since as I understand you are speaking of the Java Joz documents, not the Cuppy's.

Paul Steinberg, Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400

Z WARNING TO VETERANS ABOUT FRAN/VET AND SBA by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 14:28.

We can see how the ZORS get in here and want to change the subject and don't want to warn the Vets about the new SBA Loan Program called "Patriot Express." What a sickening name for this new government program that is targeting VETS, National Guard, and Reserve and their families for the Franchise Industry ----while permitting FRANCHISORS to HIDE THE FAILURE RATE OF THEIR FIRST GENERATION FRANCHISEES IN THE UFOC ITEM 20 TRANSFER COLUMNS. IFA members have helped to franchisors to obscure the failure rate of first-generation franchisees, intentionally or unintentionally? in articles that appear on the Internet, etc.. written by attorneys and advisors etc., such as the article that appeared in Entrepreneur.com, Make Sense of the UFOC, in August 28, 2002, by Michael H. Seid. I don't know how to hyperlink but maybe someone who really wants to help Veterans will provide a link to this Article about Item 20 and the Transfer Columns to Blue Mau Mau readers.

Cuppy's ---On SBA LOAN REGISTRY AND ELIBLE FOR PATRIOT EXPRESS by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 14:43.

Cuppy's in on the SBA Registry and is probably part of Fran/Vet Patriot Express Loan initiative of SBA. ISN'T THIS DISGUSTING! WARN VETS AND RESERVE AND NATIONAL GUARD THAT while they were fighting to spread democracy and freedom and stop terrorism, some of these predator franchisors were working in the Congress to get THE PATRIOT EXPRESS LOAN PROGRAM and that unless FRAN DATA who runs the program gets out their and finds the real and true failure rate of the first generation franchisees who are on the SBA Loan Registry, this is a big RIP OFF of the troops who won't be warned of the true risk of the franchisees that Fran/Vet gives them a discount to buy.

Read my Other Posts by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 16:50.

We have called Cuppy's attorneys. We did everything "the right way" to tried and resolve this amicably and fairly, as I've already stated. Cuppy's chose to sever communication with us. What do we have left? Lawsuits and disclosing the facts of our situation to the public so that they can make a more informed decision.

COUNSEL DUE DILIGENCE ON UFOC PREPARATION by RichardSolomon

Submitted by RichardSolomon on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 17:15.

When you are getting paid $ 50,000 to do the contract and UFOC, then counsel can do a lot of DD. Most franchise companies won't pay counsel for DD, and there are plenty of ex inhouse people out there who will do a contract and a UFOC for less than $ 15,000 (some for less than $ 5,000). These folks don't ask questions about the veracity of anything. Whatever they are told, they put in the UFOC - no questions asked. By far, most of the new franchisors are using the cheapo lawyers, and there's a lot of wrong info and a lot of missing info. Some of the stories that come out when the depositions are taken would curl your toes.

Richard Solomon
www.FranchiseRemedies.com

Richard Solomon, FranchiseRemedies.com, has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School

What Say You Morgan/Cuppy's?? by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Sun, 2007/07/22 - 06:21.

E-mail sent to Robert Morgan and Cuppy's regarding their use of my store and family's pictures on their website: Robert: Since you have chosen to ignore my request to remove pictures of me, my wife, my daughter and our store from your website you leave me no choice but to send this e-mail. You have absolutely no right to continue to use our likenesses on your website to promote the Cuppy's franchise. The images of my family and store that appear on the Cuppy's website are simply more examples of the misrepresentations that Cuppy's continues make. When you visited our store in December 2006 you acknowledged that MCSI and Cuppy's failed to provide us with the support we needed to succeed. You stated that "this is the worst case that [you] have ever seen" and lied to me when you said that "you would do whatever it took to make it right," including "calling Bellissimo for consulting advice." For four days in December you talked about how you would make things right; that you would "not let us fail." All lies. In June 2006 you lied to me, telling me that Java Jo'z and Cuppy's were the same company. You misrepresented the facts surrounding Medina Enterprises' purchase of the Java Jo'z and Emerald Coast Manufacturing assets. You led me to believe that our contracts with Java Jo'z and Emerald Coast were still in effect and enforceable when, in fact, they were not. In November 2006 you threatened my wife with foreclosure; you told her that because we would not pay the final disbursement you would have to "lay people off." More lies. If, as you said, you are a "Christian," you will one day be held accountable for your actions. Are you right with God, Robert? Do you think God condones such lies and misrepresentations? Do you even believe in God or is it all part of the con? It is my sincere hope that those I have copied on this e-mail who are not affiliated with Cuppy's will read this message and choose not to do business with Cuppy's Coffee & More. For those I have copied that are part of Cuppy's, I hope you will see that your employer is not being truthful with you or owners. PLEASE REMOVE THE PHOTOS OF MY FAMILY AND STORE FROM YOUR WEBSITE!!!

Z-Rube & Diligent Due Diligence by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 14:37.

Thank you for being the poster-child for pre-purchase due dilgence. And remember folks please practice safe franchising and don't become a Z-Rube.

Another PSA from Z-Rube by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 14:52.

Folks remember to practice safe franchising and don't become vitriolic, virulent and foolish Z-Rube. Z-Rubism is an avoidable affliction.

THE SILENCE OF THE LAMBS and the FTC --SBA by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Sun, 2007/07/01 - 15:04.

While first-generation franchisees are the sacrificial lambs that make franchising so durable in our economy, the predators in the franchising industry must be stopped from feeding on SBA endorsed franchisors who offer discounted loans to veterans, National Guard, Reserve Forces, and their spouses ---WHILE HIDING THE FAILURE RATE OF THE FIRST-GENERATION FRANCHISEES IN THE TRANSFER COLUMNS OF THE UFOC, Item 20. This dirty little secret needs to be exposed!!!! WHILE THE SBA WEAKLY DISCLAIMS THIS NEW PROGRAM AS NOT AN INDORSEMENT AND THE REGISTRY OF FRANCHISORS/FRAN DATA AS NOT AN INDORSEMENT OF THE FRANCHISE OFFERED FOR SALE AND FOR LOAN, THIS BORDERS ON MISREPRESENTATION WHEN BOTH A UFOC AND A SPECIAL LOAN PROGRAM IS OFFERED BY GOVERNMENT.

I was being polite by Paul Steinberg

Submitted by Paul Steinberg on Mon, 2007/07/02 - 12:28.

by not naming outside counsel. But it is one of the biggest and most respected franchise practices in the country, and counsel should have known better. When you pay top dollar, you expect top quality lawyering.

Paul Steinberg, Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400

Robert, Please make sure you by Guest

Submitted by Guest on Sun, 2007/07/22 - 09:43.

Robert, Please make sure you send that to Robert Purvin and all others at the AAFD.

Cuppy's Update: Has Hell Frozen Over?

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