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Filta Fry
This seems like a great franchise. However I've heard whispers of bad things about them, but nothing specific. Anyone got any info, good or bad, to share about this franchise. I'm going down to Orlando in two weeks for discovery day and would appreciate any info.
Editor's Note (Nov 5, 2009): Below is an official response to comments made in this public forum about FiltaFry from Jason Sayers, President of FiltaFry. Mr. Sayers, who has registered on Blue MauMau and posts under his real name, contacted me by phone to introduce himself and emailed me the posting below from a Filta domain name. I have decided to re-post his remark here in the forum description area. - Don Sniegowski
Having watched this blog from the sidelines, we thought it was time to post. We don’t normally post in such forums, we have a business to run, but we felt it right to do so in this case.
Believe it or not, we are actually fans of Bluemaumau. The fact that people can post and give their views is a good thing. However, a few people who are intent on discrediting Filta have corrupted what is a good idea for a forum.
We have been in business for 15 years and operate in 26 countries around the world, either via franchised or company owned operations. The FiltaFry service was launched in the USA 7 years ago and has been received extremely well from Franchise Owners and Customers alike.
The FiltaFry service is provided to over 5,000 restaurants every week, week in, week out. We have literally hundreds of endorsement letters from current customers, both independent and large corporate names, who love the service… and no we don’t pay customers for them.
Yes we have Franchise Owners who have failed. Many that do leave the system which many see as failures are unfortunately through life circumstances such as illness, divorce, spouse moving job etc. We are not immune to everyday life occurrences. The general perception that any franchise is the ticket to success is incorrect. In business, the owner has to have the right idea, work hard and have the drive and commitment (especially in the early years) to succeed. Franchising provides the right idea for people and a proven framework and systems to help them succeed. What it cannot do is turn somebody into a success. It can only help.
We put the train firmly on the tracks and show initially and on-going all our franchisees how to be a successful driver. Unfortunately in reality, the responsibility and dedication needed to be a driver every day is too much for some and they slip back to sitting in the carriage as a passenger and the train has no driver – it is going to crash.
Speak with any franchisor and you will hear the 25/50/25 rule (or a derivative of it).
- That is 25% of the network are stars. These Franchisees expand their business, bring new ideas to the table and generally help the whole brand move forward.
- There are 25% of the network that are unhappy, cannot see how to achieve success, do not want to be in business, and will do anything to show that it isn’t their fault.
- The remaining 50%, in the middle, are the Franchises who earn a good living, listen to advice, try and improve their businesses and should improve their skills along the way to become good business people.
Yes, we take some of the responsibility for the poorer performing Franchisees. We should have screened them harder to begin with and not accepted them into the system. During the height of the economic boom it was easy to pick up business everywhere. Even those Franchisees without any drive couldn’t help but fall over business. In this bubble of success we, like many franchisors, dropped our guard and took people we shouldn’t have.
However, this doesn’t mean that the business doesn’t work or that most of our Franchisees aren’t driving ahead, expanding, purchasing more territories, adding vans, taking on staff and generally performing profitably.
Bear in mind that every Filta franchisee attends the same four week training program, has the same initial and on-going support and has a good territory full of potential customers. And yes, it is hard work. Why then do some not grow while others take-off? Every franchisee has the same training and support, the same everything. There is only one common denominator for failure in our business - the individual.
In the last month alone, we have had 4 Franchise Owners renew their Franchise Agreements for additonal 5 years terms. That surely demonstrates the success of this business.
Many franchisors get blasted on blogs such as this. Unfortunately that’s life. The good Franchise Owners get on with building their businesses’ and don’t have time to visit these sites (I don’t suggest they divert their attentions), while the unsuccessful ones sit and home and spend time blogging and blaming instead of putting the time into building theirs.
I will answer some of the questions and comments posted on this site.
Staff
Yes we have had staff changes. What business hasn’t? Every business employs people and at some stage lets them go for one reason or another. Do all our Franchisees keep all the same employees for ever? We have a number of staff who have been with us in the USA for over 5 years and we have let staff go after only a year or two. That is business.
As with any organization, some ex-staff members remain bitter and feel wronged particularly when the unemployment levels are so high. Everyone is entitled to his opinion but postings on this site, from one person in particular, are simply aimed at smearing our business. This has been pretty obvious given the postings that refer to us giving him money and he’ll stop posting.
Xenerga
Some of the shareholders from The Filta Group invested into, and helped run, a biodiesel business called Xenerga in 2007. Crude Oil prices had been fairly stable but rose from $60 to $96 per barrel during 2007 leading to greater interest in alternative fuels. By July 2008 the price of crude oil had rocketed to $145 per barrel. The business took off with several plants producing and selling quality fuel.
However in just five short months, in late 2008, oil took its biggest drop in history to $37 per barrel. This, coupled with the financial crisis taking firm hold, left the vast majority of the biodiesel plants in the USA facing closure. There are thousands of press articles showing this. Unfortunately, in 2009, Xenerga was a casualty of this, when two of its three plants closed due to the market conditions.
There still appears to be little light at the end of the tunnel for biodiesel but we hope that market conditions improve one day for the many people who shared our vision and remain in the industry today.
Law Suits
In the 15 years of operating the FiltaFry business, the company has only ever had 3 law suits brought by Franchisees. Yes, that’s 3 in 15 years. Not bad for any franchise organization, especially in this highly litigious country. All of these have been in the USA and all during the current recession. I recently read an article that legal cases in general had quadrupled since the recession began, people trying to get money from anywhere.
In the US system, any party can bring a civil case another party claiming anything at all. Until it is resolved, the claim remains.
One of these is a countersuit from a franchise owner who, after not being allowed to renew his Franchise Agreement, continued to trade, affecting neighboring franchisees and the brand. It is Filta’s responsibility to protect its existing Franchisees. Therefore in 2008 Filta filed suit so stop the ex-franchisee trading. The Filta Group won the legal case for the return of the equipment. He continued to trade. The judge ordered the ex-franchisee to return the additonal machine he possessed. Still he continues to trade. If this ex-franchisee, who posts as sledman, thinks the business is so bad, then why continue to trade? You will always get these people.
Another was only in business for a few weeks before he quit. Not exactly demonstrating the commitment mentioned above.
We are happy to discuss any outstanding legal matters directly with people. We will not discuss them on an open forum.
Machine
Yes, we have had two versions of the machine in the USA in the last 6 years. This is called ‘improvement’. All of those Franchisees who follow the operations manual do not have any issues with the machine. Do things go wrong with it? yes… it’s a machine. Purchase a BMW or Mercedes and it will go wrong one day. However, we have technical support on hand to assist any problems there may be.
Claims on this site about hole sizes and pressures are utter nonsense and are designed to simply smear. Our machines work fine.
Filters
We have used the same filter design for the past 15 years. The filters are made from paper and, as a natural product, paper quality can vary. We had a couple of bad batches last year from our manufacturer. Even then, the failure rate was only 20% and all defective filters were replaced to the Franchisees free of charge.
We have overcome any performance issues that arose and now have 3 different suppliers for our filters.
Supplier
The supplier of our machines in the UK, Cardev, did declare bankruptcy in 2009. Like most manufacturing companies, it struggled in the recession. A new UK company, with the same owners and still trading under the Cardev brand, purchased all the assets of the business (including the FiltaFry equipment), and continues to provide excellent service to The Filta Group. In fact, 30 new machines and currently en-route to the USA as I write. The UK supplier continues to be one of the three cartridge suppliers to The Filta Group.
In addition we always ensure that we have a fall back stock situation for any short term eventuality.
FiltaCool
It has been suggested on this site that FiltaFry doesn’t work and that FiltaCool was introduced to prop it up. Somebody then suggested the FiltaCool doesn’t work. Neither could be further from the truth.
Not many companies are with a customer once a week for a good period of time. FiltaFry franchisees have a massively unique strong relationship with their customers. This is called a Customer Base. Customer Bases are very valuable. It was always our aim to maximize our relationship with these customers and provide other environmentally friendly products and services.
FiltaCool is a product that fits this niche perfectly. It solves a problem that kitchens have with their walk-in coolers, it saves the customers money and it takes just 5 minutes to service once every 3 months. The markup for the Franchisee on this product is 400%. This is a winning product.
There is a rival franchise out there that sells franchises to sell this product. That franchise alone costs $70,000. We offer this as part of our Filta franchise.
We have several more products and services that are due to be introduced through our Franchise network in 2010. This again is improving the business for Franchisees. Customer Base is valuable.
Anonymous Postings
As a company, we are an easy target for anybody to post garbage. The only people who have actually posted their names on this site are existing Franchise Owners who post in defense of the slanderous remarks posted by Guest or Guest 2.
I notice that not one of our detractors on this site actually post in their real names. If you have truthful information to post, then you have nothing to fear from posting in your real names. Have the guts to post in your real names or simply do not post at all. The information you currently give is factually incorrect, simply designed to smear, and oftentimes slanderous.
Viewers of this blog should not take anything written seriously unless there is a real name given. If they claim to be a current or ex-franchisee, and don’t appear in the FDD, then they are not.
It is our policy not to comment on postings that do not have a real name behind them.
I see an outdated copy of a link to an FDD on this site. If anyone is interested in this business, they should speak directly with us, attend a discovery day, receive an up-to-date FDD, and call the network for validation.
I would like to finish this posting with a saying that we have written on the wall in our offices “Do the right thing”. We will never always get decisions right. However, all of our staff try to “do the right thing” when making decisions every day.
Regards
Jason Sayers
President, The Filta Group, Inc.
(2 votes)
Filtabio
What this about filtabio? surely this is just adding the risk involved in this business, taking 350oF oil out to a van in buckets? This could not possibly be safe?
filta_fry
What happened to all the postings that were here regarding Ffilta fry? I was hoping to track the latest posts.
Below Post
While interesting, the below post by ‘filtafake’ is not exactly news worthy. What site do you know that does not place cookies on your computer? I’ve never had a problem with this site, but then I don’t engage in copyright infringement, posting proprietary information (in breach of contract) here, or fraudulently claim to have a particular function with Filta (like technician) and then go on to (repeatedly) post false and/or inaccurate information with malicious intent. (i.e., harming the Filta brand and therefore, all franchisees.) For those seeking redress as a result of this behavior, either a subpoena or more likely, cooperation from the site/ISP in exchange for a hold harmless agreement, is an easy, perfectly legal way to identify posters.
Of course, this process, including establishing which precedents to use, securing depositions, etc. takes some time but the end result will benefit all franchisees being hurt by this egregious behavior on the part of just a few. This does not mean all are plaintiffs; it only takes one to file and that information remains confidential until the appropriate parties are served.
It’s unfortunate that a few have corrupted this site with their own spiteful agenda, but it is what it is and now the legitimate folks who have a vested interest must move forward with the next step.
A new secret weapon to track
A new secret weapon to track down all the unregistered user names who do not provide their real names in this open forum. These Internet Tracking Companies are called www.arin.net based in the USA and www.ripe.net based in the The Netherlands. The sole purpose of these companies who have received large fee’s from companies
The purpose of this is simply to act as a stealth submarine, scanning the oceans for surface vessels and require their own personal IP address, and report back to HQ await instructions. My Mcafee Anti- Virus program of which, could be classed as a Mine Sweeper with my sonar ball in the water. Detected Internet Network & Inbound Traffic for a number of weeks now. This has caused me alarm, because my privacy under the Data Protection Act has been compromised. My Telephone Company who provides my internet connection has been informed of the breach of confidentiality, and they agree (having taken control over my computer to confirm this ) they have banned these companies for any more infringement. If and when, I log onto this site again, they will monitor any tracking data with their own software. However, I could under legal advice seek redress if this would persist. A user has the right to post concerns or comments on this site, with out providing their real names, and keep their own IP Secure.
The above companies ping your computer through different ports to identify and attempt to require your Cookie Files, IP signature and address. However under the Terms and Conditions of Law wherever you live, they have to be very careful on how they require information and who they provide it too.
I must admit, I have been taken off my guard since joining this Blue Mau Mau Forum of which, was already alive and kicking with complaints and concerns well before I joined. I simply added more shared information, without any slander or not to smear. It was the other users who caused slander against me, ie Filtafake, Moron, Monkey Idiot etc etc.
This is not a admission that I was wrong, I strongly believe I was correct in my past post that I had written.
Finally, I would suggest any unregistered user to check their, Internet Security Settings, ie Inbound Network Traffic, and take the appropriate action. The ISP Providers will be very interested to hear if anybody has any Infringement of Privacy with this issue. The ISP will act as depth charges for you and blow these submarines out of the water.
Secret Weapon
I think the CIA or Mossad are on to you Filtatech. Maybe even the Russian GRU. Don't be surprised if Russian Speznaz forces come crashing through your door soon.
No News Update
There was a press release about the name change following the reorganization of Cardev, UK. But as usual, the couple ex-Filta losers who like to come here to make themselves feel better about their own failures, are trying to make it seem otherwise. Just pathetic!
Also, if there were any true literate folks among them, the post by Jason Sayes at the top of this page addressed this issue over a month ago!
"The supplier of our machines in the UK, Cardev, did declare bankruptcy in 2009. Like most manufacturing companies, it struggled in the recession. A new UK company, with the same owners and still trading under the Cardev brand, purchased all the assets of the business (including the FiltaFry equipment), and continues to provide excellent service to The Filta Group. In fact, 30 new machines are currently en-route to the USA as I write. The UK supplier continues to be one of the three cartridge suppliers to The Filta Group.
In addition we always ensure that we have a fall back stock situation for any short term eventuality."
We can't wait until the suit to expose these losers is filed!
Re: No News Update, etc.
Interesting that what seems to be a throw away line at the end of a post seems to have elicited such a defensive response. However, a legal action with subpoenas would result in the identity of the individual or individuals who have defamed with malicious intent to be revealed. That does not mean that their identity would be posted here, it means that those seeking redress would be able to find out who they are. If they then exposed them in this forum, it would become known here. IMO the forum itself is not to blame. It serves a purpose and it’s unfortunate that a few would try to co-opt that.
The point is that free speech is not the issue. The constitution, while advancing free speech, recognized that free speech comes with huge responsibility. Free speech should never be used to defame or slander another. Therefore, the law includes rights for those who are hurt by others to seek redress. Courts throughout the country have upheld this right, even in online cases.
It will be interesting to see what happens next.
Here is the detailed
Here is the detailed information from an actual expert who provides his name and qualification. This should clear up any confusion.
"The PHD Candidate (student) is testing incorrectly. Filta’s micro-filtration is based on both absolute and depth filtration.
The pre-filter basket within the MFU is used much like the skimmer in a swimming pool.
It is designed to both protect the pump and collect larger particulate before reaching the main cartridge. In this way the polishing cartridge is more efficient in both result and life.
The main cartridge or polishing filter is a cellulous based depth filter and is rated “nominally”.
We continually monitor both manufacturing processes and quality controls to insure the highest standards are being achieved.
Additionally, we periodically verify through independent test laboratories all specifications are being met.
Results from all filters we have used show nominal filtration results of over 96% efficiency in removing the particulates in the 1-5 micron range.
When using depth filters you will almost always find particulates above the stated rating. This is to say that a nominally rated “5 micron” filter unit can have particulates of a much greater size when examined through particulate counters. It is the efficiencies of the filter that is of greatest importance. Establishing how many of the finest particulates can be removed is the measure of how “good” a filtration job is being performed.
Below is brief explanation from our manual of how these types of filtration work and how we are able to achieve consistent quality results for our customers.
Introduction to filtration...
A barrier exists that will remove virtually any size solid particulate matter one would wish to remove. The utilization of the correct filtration is essential in the design and optimization process in order to -control capital equipment costs, optimizes operational cycle times, maximize overall efficiency in operation and minimize maintenance requirements. The MFU was designed to maximize all of these parameters and not just to focus on any individual benefit.
Filtration overview
There are 2 main types of passive filtration, absolute filtration (normally surface filters) and depth filtration (structures with a tortuous path). The MFU uses both types, an absolute filter as a pump pre-filter and a depth filter as a post pump filter.
Absolute Filters
Absolute filters are usually made of a metal mesh or material screen, and are usually characterized by a single thin layer of regular openings of known size. Absolute filters are designed to operate as a one-pass filter and, generally, the smaller the openings the finer the particle size retained. The main concern with absolute filters is the ratio of filtering surface area to the number of particles to be removed. When particles begin to block the openings, the liquid flow rate through the filter slows. When all of the openings are blocked the filter is blinded and liquid flow stops. Due to the uneven structure of the debris found in fryers the blinding effect is slowed down, and to a certain extent the build up of debris provides an additional filtration surface.
Obviously the smaller the size of the holes the faster is the blinding affect, with major implications for change frequencies, pressure control or pump cavitations if it used as a pre-filter.
The pre filter in the MFU is therefore in the shape of a mesh basket to provide maximum surface area and fluid is drawn from underneath to promote collection of debris in the base of the basket. The mesh holes are set at a micron rating that provides effective pre-filtration for pump protection and at the same time avoids excessive build up of debris in the post filter. The rating is set so that it does not blind too quickly when emptying a normal fryer so that additional operator intervention is not usually required. The MFU requires a pre-filter to protect the gears in the pump from excessive wear and premature failure from foreign objects. It is essential, therefore, that the pre-filter is always in place when using the system.
Depth Filters
Depth filters usually consist of a thick layer or layers of porous material containing irregular or "tortuous" channels. These types of filters are capable of trapping particles of 1 micron or even smaller in diameter, throughout the matrices.
Size for size depth filters do not blind as easily as absolute filters because they have a greater porosity and thus a greater filtering surface area. It is important to appreciate that nominally rated depth filters do not achieve their maximum efficiency with one pass of the oil through the cartridge.
The MFU post pump cartridge is a true depth filtration medium, and through the controlled tightness of the windings the surface traps particles as well as absorbing them into the fibrous structure. If it was too tight the oil flow would be restricted and the pressure required to operate the system increased, too loose and it will not filter correctly.
The aim of the post pump cartridge is to be the final particle retention barrier and to act as a polishing cartridge removing the finer particles of carbon and food debris. It is the fine carbon and food particles that are the main cause of the dirty coloration of the oil. In addition, these small particles promote early oil degradation, cause hotspots and uneven heating of the oil, as well as leaving fine contaminant deposits on future food batches.
However, the fundamental difference from the pre-filter is that these particles are distributed within the cartridge and not just on the surface. This distribution extends the service life to enable the cartridge to last, under normal circumstances, a full day’s operation. Due to the natural nature of the fibre structure distribution of particles will not be regular, and each cartridge will in a sense be unique. There will be considerable darkening at the top and the sides of the cartridge with a marked cleanliness as the oil travels through and down the windings. Larger particles that have passed the pre-filter will tend to collect on the surface area of the cartridge, but due to the pressure exerted by the pump will not blind easily. Smaller particles will distribute in the windings and will not always be visible; this is particularly the case with carbon which will sometimes look like a dark patch.
I hope this clarifies the type of filtration used and the levels we filter down to.
Maybe we can help the student with his studies. I invite the him down to Orlando to see the filtration and tests in action.
Todd Plumlee CTO The Filta Group, Inc.
Don't break copyright laws
Please do not cut and paste large sections of copyrighted material. This breaks copyright laws. Fair use stipulation allows posters to use a few sentences to help highlight or emphasize a point.
It looked like someone copied pages from an operations manual and pasted it here.
Re: Please don't break copyright laws
Thank you Mr. Blue Mau Mau for deleting the offending post and clarifying 'fair use' regulations!
Thank you, Mr Blue Mau Mau
Thank you, Mr Blue Mau Mau for deleting the offending post and clarifying "Fair use' regulations! LMAO .
Does it occur to you, that your Tom Plumlee CTO The Filta Group inc on the 2009-12-03 12:29. Upload onto this site a essay in writing from the Filta Operations Manual copied and pasted pages 3-10 to 3-12 of Chapter 3 heading Technical and Oil Chemistry in a responce to alg@dotecengineering.com.
HAVE A LOOK AT THE MANUAL WORD FOR WORD. These are not his own words.
We can all log onto the Filtanet, and use information for this site. But when we do, we are criticised for breaking copyright laws. Now it seems that users of this forum or the FG wish to cry and play the foul card.
I have been accused of been a Moron, well i am glad to say its nice having somebody else in the boat with me. Or am i been obtuse?
However, it does make good entertainment for the start of 2010. I beleive by this forum is the motto "To prosper and amuse"
One of the rights an owner of
One of the rights an owner of copyright has is the right to reproduce, or to authorize another to reproduce, their copyrighted material. As a subject matter expert, and a representative of FiltaGroup, Todd (NOT Tom!)Plumlee would have the right to reproduce any part of their copyrighted material he deemed necessary to clarify some misinformation which had been posted here by dubious sources.
So, in response to Filtafake's question, "Am I being obtuse?" the answer is of course, YES! Moron? Well, let his posts answer that! LMAO!
How on the hell can you quote
How on the hell can you quote " We can't wait until the suit to expose these losers is filed" Do you have any evidence that these user names are failed ex franchisees, or ex employees. No you don't. That is a real pathetic statement!
To bring a suit against some body in a court of law, you need a person name and place of address to issue such a suit. They could be living in New Zealand, or anywhere in the world. Or they could be next door or round the block. Or it could be someone close to home, on the inside. Who Knows. What are the objectives of these people. I now see in this forum there is a Filta Expert (alg@dotecengineering.com) who ever he or she is. They have taken an interest in this forum and conducted testing of equipment etc. Could this person now be confirmed as Filtatech? Will he or she confirm this, it will make a lot of sense ot all of the previous postings posted? I note by Filtatech posting 2009-10-30 18.53 quote" I have finally conducted experiements... with my two buddies MFU". Who's buddy? How did the Filta Expert conduct testing on this equipment , whos MFU did he or she use for this purpose?
It does not take a PHD in philosophy to work it out. lol.
However, it does make good entertainment and get you in the spirit and prepare of thanksgiving.
What damage is been done to existing franchisees? Evidence is already known to everybody, that faults lie elsewhere. I don't have any issues with my existing customers. This is open free speech forum, and people who quote their real names or don't have to. They have their right not too. Its in the constitution.
If you look at the heading banner on Blue Maumau, Public Forums Of Discussion 'Share franchise news, to prosper and amuse' Come on get a life.
alg@dotecengineering.com
From the dotecengineering web site...Aphelion Interactive Technologies page - the page where the alg@dotecengineering email can be found.
Established as a division of DOTec engineering in 1999, we are dedicated to the field of multimedia web development, specifically serving DOTec customers venturing into an Internet presence.
Clearly filtration experts.
Now in fairness - it does look like the parent company DOCec does some sort of forensic engineering and thermal systems design. So it would be interesting to understand the qualifications of this individual.
Hmmm...
Exactly where in the constitution does it state that people have the right not to "quote their real names"? lol
News Update
Cardev International Ltd who makes the MFU in England. Is now called Enviromental Technologies Ltd. If you look at their website you can see the change in address. However on the website, you do not see any information or pictures on the MFU!
Its like Filta changing their name to Filta Enviromental Kitchen Solutions. Why the change?
Q1 Are they still the suppliers who still manufacture the MFU and provide parts and filters.
Answer1.... why does it
Answer1.... why does it matter??? so long as parts are supplied who cares who supplies them..
I am sure Filta have suppliers for parts/filters and equipment
This is not news it is just another ridiculous message with little or no point.
Its called re branding...
Its called re branding... many companies do it and for very good reasons, nothing underhand.. Like when they offer additional products when the old name will not support these new products.
It was FiltaFry, this limits the ability to offer a range of products.
So why did
So why did the most successful franchisee not renew? The franchisee with over 30K in revenue. Answer Pat:
What you are buying with this franchise is their MFU (oil filtration machine). Now I don't know about you, but $90K for a MFU is alot of money. You are not buying a brand with this franchise. Are you telling a joke? Nationally and internationally recognized FiltaFry is the undisputed market leader in cooking oil filtration & fryer management.
Re: So why did
Who are you? What is your FULL name and LOCATION? Where is your evidence that any franchisee has not renewed. There have been rumors of a divorcing couple who own a franchise not renewing but they are just that, rumors.
Are you really this stupid? You have NO credibility "Guest"! REAL posters have provided detailed factual information and all you've done is whine like a 2 year old. By ignoring all the salient points, you've shown yourself to be obtuse at best and moronic at worst. Either way, your rants are clearly irrelevant and will be ignored.
I heard about 1 in 4
I heard about 1 in 4 franchises renew. So the posting could be true.
Re: I heard...
I heard 94% of franchises succeed. Just as easily could be true!
BTW, every heard of irony? Talk about a moron! LOL
You must have an IQ of a
You must have an IQ of a monkey. If I were a betting man, probably 50 IQ. 94% success ratio, come on. If you bought this franchise, you at a MORON.
Success rate
You keep going on and posting about failure rates. You obviously need to go back to school and learn some math.
Don’t take my word for it. Take the word of the SBA and Mr Blue MauMau himself. Take a look at the article “2008's SBA Loan Failure Rates by Franchise Brand” on this site.
Mr Blue MauMau says:
WASHINGTON (Blue MauMau) - The Small Business Administration has just released its newest list of failure rates by franchise brand from October 1, 2000 until September 31, 2008. This is a list of general SBA 7(a) and real estate and equipment 504 loans to franchise owners. It gives a sense to lenders and buyers on how well franchisees in a chain are financially able to perform. This is the list that the agency provides to loan officers of its most trusted lenders and banks throughout the country.
It shows the failure rates between 2000 and 2008 of franchisees who get SBA backed loans. FiltaFry’s failure rate is only 6%. There are more than 300 brands with much higher failure rates (as high as 85%!) including:
Athlete’s Foot - 46% failure rate
Dollar Discount Stores - 44% failure rate
Carvel Ice Cream - 41% failure rate
Blimpie - 40% failure rate
Golf Etc - 40% failure rate
Wing Zone - 38% failure rate
Kwik Kopy - 33% failure rate
Mr. Electric - 33% failure rate
Back Yard Burgers - 32% failure rate
Fast Frame – 27% failure rate
TCBY – 25% failure rate
Budget Blinds – 24% failure rate
Godfather’s Pizza – 23% failure rate
Wetzel’s Pretzels – 23% failure rate
Minuteman Press – 22% failure rate
Meineke Discount Muffler – 21% failure rate
Petland – 20% failure rate
Quiznos – 19% failure rate
Lawn Doctor – 18% failure rate
AAMCO – 17% failure rate
Chem-Dry – 16% failure rate
Long John Silvers – 16% failure rate
McDonald’s (yes McDonald’s) – 14% failure rate
Burger King – 13% failure rate
Mr Handyman – 13% failure rate
Exxon – 13% failure rate
Lies, d*mned lies and statistics....
This is SBA loan default rate. Watch out for implicit sampling bias. For example McD: very very few McD Zees use SBA since any McD Zee in good standing has access to VERY advantageous national franchise financing programs offered by major national banks (NOT by McD Corp.). Go to a McD covnention/conference and there will be several booths from these national lending programs, all passing out cards and hoping for Zee business.
Of the approx. 14,000 McD units in the U.S., about 11,000 are Zee operated. How many went SBA? Not many, I'll bet. So if the bottom 1% of McD Zees who were in financial trouble were driven to get an SBA loan and of those 110 stores 1 in 7 defaulted on their SBA loan, well that would be 16 defaults out of 11,000 units (0.15% default rate), NOT 1/7 (16%) of ALL McDs defaulting.
Another Q: how long does it take for the default to happen? How many Filtas have been open 3 years or 5 years? A man-in-van Filta is a pretty small operation, seems plausible for example that someone could abandon their Filta business and then pay off the remaining loan balance from whatever job they take next.
So while a high SBA default rate can be a red flag, it takes more looking into to see what the significance is. And the converse or reciprocal, the SBA non-default rate, is NOT equivalant to business "success" rate. It just means the SBA loan got paid, not the the business was a "success", just that the Zee didn't go bankrupt..
And a valid comment to
And a valid comment to include is let's say you by 2 territories and have 3 routes set-up. You paid over $200K with your vans. Now it would take a heck of alot of filtering to recover your investment. The morons that post in this forum never bring up the investment. I have read postings by not to business savy franchises were it is obvious they don't understand finance 101 and the ex-franchises, most don't get this either.
Re: Lies...
Thanks for your input Granville. Unlike the couple ex-Filta losers who like to post deceitful and completely unsubstantiated comments, you provided some thoughtful detail in your post.
Unfortunately, it seems to have missed the point of the exchange. Once again these losers post a completely ridiculous, unsupported statement. In response, another post stated that 94% of franchises succeed. As a follow up to that, still another poster provided some support for that statement. The fact that we’re arguing the merits of that support proves that the follow up statement has some merit while the original insipid post has none. His statement about renewal is equivalent to saying “I heard the sky is falling”.
As many Filta franchisees who have posted here under their REAL NAMES and LOCATIONS, this franchise requires some business acumen and hard work but with that, can be very successful. These franchisees who have grown their business, adding vans and territories, provide an accurate picture of this franchise and its potential. From the structure and content of their posts, it’s obvious why they’re successful!
Your post is somewhat
Your post is somewhat misleading. Most of the franchises you list above require subtantially more money to start then a home based franchise like the one in this forum. So more people are going to the SBA for financing. Therefore, if only a few franchisee's buying this franchise go to the SBA, of course the SBA success rate will be higher.
Now this takes a little more then simple math to figure out. Maybe you should go back for a basic refresher in algebra.
The person posted not about
The person posted not about the success rate but rather the number of franchises that renew after the original franchise agreeement ends.
Re: The person posted...
No, the person posted in response to a previous post "I heard 94% of franchises succeed." The follow up post to that included detailed information from an objective source which supports the 94% success rate post. Comprehension skills, anyone? lol
The original post was "I
The original post was "I heard about 1 in 4 franchises renew. So the posting could be true." Which is another way to evaluate a franchise. If people are not renewing, something is wrong.
Re: Sad But True
From previous post, "you at a MORON" Classic! These folks get more idiotic by the day!
PJM, I do understand the irony! Perhaps all these "ex-Filta losers" who post as various "Guests" should try using a dictionary and/or a proofreader before posting. They clearly have comprehension issues! lol
Re: sad but true
It’s fortunate that someone here understands irony! These ex-Filta losers, with their sad little attempts to justify their own failures, have gotten more pathetic. You can only wonder if they actually believe their own deceptions.
All will be exposed soon, including the one poster who writes under filtafake, guest, guest2, et al. It’s sad that he apparently doesn’t realize that with each post he embarrasses himself more. Perhaps English is a second language? Wouldn’t it be satisfying to have him served when he least expects it. LOL
Based on what I have read in
Based on what I have read in this forum Pat, I would say more current franchisee's are posting then, how did you put it, "ex-Filta losers". Unfortunately, you are a classic Moron. Your postings are not well written or logical.
Let's see what happens, when
Let's see what happens, when the figure's for the end of 2009-2010 are in percentage terms.
The figures for Oct 1st 2000 and Sept 31st 2008 are irrelevant in these issue's raised. You are talking about past history, at the boom of the industry. On the other hand are you talking about Xenerga, or are they separate issues?
I think, this will provide an accurate IQ score..... Do you know, we are still in a recession.
For this reason the banks are tightening on borrowing.
Don't you read the Washington Post under the business heading. Or is a high IQ standard required.
Anyone who reads the
Anyone who reads the Washington Post "under the business heading" (LOL) doesn't have a clue about how the real business world operates. Anyone who truly follows the business community reads The Wall Street Journal. Although you better keep your dictionary handy. They use those bigs words in the WSJ and unlike 'Guest 2's' 12/18 post, the articles contain intelligent, cogent thoughts articulated with appropriate spelling, grammar and punctuation!
Re: Let's See
Can this poster really be this obtuse and then question someone else's IQ? LMAO!
Just a quick business update: The period covered by the review encompasses a significant period of time by any measure of business cycles.(32 Quarters!) Do you have any idea how many quarters of negative GDP there were during this period? The recession which began in the final 2 quarters of 2000 and ran well beyond the economic aftermath of 9/11/01, left many without sufficient capital.
The fact that banks were more likely to lend during this time period, makes the low number of business loan failures all the more significant. As they say, it's not rocket science, but for some here it obviously might as well be!
So you post as Guest 2 and
So you post as Guest 2 and expect the posting made by Guest to reveal his name and location. Come on Guest 2, you must be a moron.
What you are buying with this franchise
Nationally and internationally recognized FiltaFry is the undisputed market leader in cooking oil filtration & fryer management. The service is an eco-friendly mobile, on-site service for the micro-filtration of cooking oil and the vacuum based cleaning of deep fryers. FiltaFry's proven filter technology removes even the most minute pieces of food and other contaminants such as carbon, which break down the stability of oil.
Together with the FiltaFry service, FiltaCool product & service, is also an undisputed market leader, providing a cost-effective and eco-friendly solution to businesses that need to control moisture levels within walk-in units/walk-in coolers. Each FiltaCool container holds an air permeable packet of specially blended minerals that are scientifically proven to absorb excess humidity and gas molecules in refrigerators for up to three months.
The client base continues to grow and includes hotels, restaurants, bars, office & factory restaurants, diners, universities, sports venues, airports, fast food outlets, hospitals, schools, anywhere food is fried and/or there are cold storage units.
Filta also provides comprehensive in-field and business training, toll-free call handling of potential customer inquiries and full support and advice as the business is started and built. To ensure success, a Business Development Manager works in each new franchisee’s territory to help establish a solid base of regular customers. The business can be run from home, with little overhead, administration and minimal stock.
Look, filtering cooking oil
Look, filtering cooking oil does nothing to change the chemistry of cooking oil for the better; no filtration does this. If oil is bad, filtration has no impact. Filtering everyday will help; extend the life of cooking oil 30% - 50%; does any franchise filter a customer's oil everyday; I don't think so giveng the cost that would be required for this service.
When you state that they are the market leader, so what. How many franchises do they have? Do they have coverage equal to 50%, 75%, 90% of the USA; I would doubt they do. So what type of market leader are you referring to with your comment?
(C)omprehensive in-field and business training, toll-free call handling of potential customer inquiries". Look, if a person can't do this themselves, they shouldn't be in business. What does a toll-free number cost?
The FiltaCool product can be bought of the internet from Eva-Dry. Why buy it marked up from a franchisor?
Now, I will admit that by marketing the services you can get customers based on the postings in this forum. This is good but always think about what you are getting into.
Pat you are not too good at
Pat you are not too good at finance are you? When you take the investment required to buy this franchise and include this cost in your profit calculation (there aren't too many people reselling this franchise) and the loss investment income, this franchise doesn't offer a very good profit.
So why did
So why did the most successful franchisee not renew? The franchisee with over 30K in revenue. Answer Pat:
What you are buying with this franchise is their MFU (oil filtration machine). Now I don't know about you, but $90K for a MFU is alot of money. You are not buying a brand with this franchise. Are you telling a joke? Nationally and internationally recognized FiltaFry is the undisputed market leader in cooking oil filtration & fryer management.
facts
The most successful franchisee mentioned above is probably Julian. if anyone is currently looking into Filta fry, you should find him and question him first. He had intimate dealings with the FG.
No he did not renew. He did run a multi territory operation. You will find that he does not hAve nice things to sAy about those behind the FG. He operated in the SF area. Please do your due diligence Before investing here. The idea is genuine but until the Fg changes its ways I would hold off.
Cardev went bAnkrupt by the way for the most part because they Could not produce consistent quality filters. They were forced to credit the FG some big $ and the FG went into serious downturn which also slowed the need for MFUs .
The above statement is the truth and time will reveal it so. Ps Currently frAnchisees have the choice of A. Pentair filter or a crystal filter. No CArdev filter is offered unless the new crystal filter is from cardev and we were not told.
What is this that' i'm
What is this that' i'm hearing Julian Yates Regional Developer from the San Francisco area, did not renew his territory operation. Gosh I'M shocked? We will miss you buddy.
Does anybody know what happened? Heard a rumour, that things were not going well.
Also heard rumour not only that Cardev lost out on filter sales because they could not produce consistant quality filters. Rumour has it that the FG did not pay monies for outstanding MFU that were ordered. FG money was heavily invested in Xenerga Bio Diesel project. We all now know, what the history is at present.
When you read everbody post etc, all pieces of information falls into place, and you ask yourselves this could be called Filtafry Synchronicity.
facts
The most successful franchisee mentioned above is probably Julian. if anyone is currently looking into Filta fry, you should find him and question him first. He had intimate dealings with the FG.
No he did not renew. He did run a multi territory operation. You will find that he does not hAve nice things to sAy about those behind the FG. He operates in the SF area. Please do your due diligence Before investing here. The idea is genuine but until the Fg changes its ways I would hold off.
Cardev went bAnkrupt by the way for the most part because they Could not produce consistent quality filters. They were forced to credit the FG some big $ and the FG went into serious downturn which also slowed the need for MFUs .
The above statement is the truth and time will reveal it so. Ps Currently frAnchisees have the choice of A. Pentair filter or a crystal filter. No CArdev filter is offered unless the new crystal filter is from cardev and we were not told.
What you are buying with this franchise
What you are buying with this franchise is their MFU (oil filtration machine). Now I don't know about you, but $90K for a MFU is alot of money.
Filtafry Savings Benefits
Filtafry Savings Benefits…(from a recent article)
Below is another article regarding the benefits of Filtafry. Whether you believe it's just PR (which the filtafakes (I love that!) here claim that corporate doesn't do or you believe it's an independent article, it at least is an on topic, intelligent discussion point. A much needed change from recent sophomoric rants!
More and more restaurants are suspending there growth and development plans and focusing on just keeping an even keel. FiltaFry understands the needs of the food service industry and offers a way to cut costs and save money in the kitchen.
Reducing Oil Usage
One of the greatest benefits of using FiltaFry over a traditional waste oil removal services is the drastic reduction of cooking oil turnover and usage. FiltaFry does much more than haul away your waste oil. FiltaFry's advanced micro-filtration system will clarify and purify the oil in your fryers. This process not only improves the quality and taste of your cooking oil, it also increasing its usability. This means that your business can see a drastic reduction in the amount of oil that you dispose of. Many clients report as much as a 50% decrease in the amount of cooking oil their establishments use on a weekly basis.
Energy Efficiency
The decrease in expense to your business doesn't stop at the fryer. Using FiltaFry can help your restaurant reduce its monthly energy bill as well. FiltaFry will work with you to keep your fryers in top working order and to keep your staff informed on the most efficient use of your equipment. More efficient frying means more efficient energy use. This can equal big savings for you business. As an added benefit, you will know that your business is doing its part to lessen its negative impact on the environment and embrace a greener way of conducting business.
Saving on Labor
Using FiltaFry can also provide your business with a more efficient use of your employees' time. When you have a skilled professional managing your fryers, your employees are free to turn their attentions toward the other day-to-day tasks of running the restaurant. Though you may spend less on an hour of an employee's time, you must take into consideration the fact that your staff is less trained and qualified to maintain your equipment. They may well take twice the time to complete the task only half as well. Your FiltaFry technician is motivated to clean and maintain your establishment's fryers more thoroughly and in less time, every time.
Insurance Costs
Using FiltaFry can also improve safety in your kitchen. Every year restaurant owners pay out thousands of dollars for work related injuries caused by slip and fall accidents or burns from fryers. FiltaFry can help work with you to reduce the likelihood of such occurrences, decreasing your risk and saving you money. Lowering your injury incidents will also help you save up to 25% on your insurance.
FiltaFry can have a very positive impact on your business and its finances. The money you save can easily, and in most cases usually does, exceed the cost of your FiltaFry servicing. The combined savings in oil, energy, labor and insurance all add up to greater profits for your restaurant.
When you read "Many clients
When you read "Many clients report as much as a 50% decrease" or "also provide your business with a more efficient use of your employees' time", these statement don't mean much. There is no meat on the bone, nothing quantifiable.
Test results of filter and machine- A MUST READ
Just wanted to post the results of an independent testing just completed on a fairly new generation #2 MFU and filter. Machine was thoroughly inspected for workmanship and any possible defects beforehand AND tests were done with new filters that were NOT part of the recall or to have any known issues.
The testing was compiled by a certified engineer in the field and a current PHD candidate of high end finite element analysis, design analysis and testing, and Q'FD (quality function deployment)
Test results as follows:
1) After several attempts of cooking oil filtration using samples found in typical deep fryer situations and the MFU and new filters, resulted in a final filtration level of 50 microns, with some particulates as large as 150 microns.
2) Also to note this machine would never pass NFS safety standards as the control buttons are too far from the operator during normal procedures.
Any further questions relating to these results can be obtained by emailing:
alg@dotecengineering.com
Testing
The PHD Candidate (student) is testing incorrectly. Filta’s micro-filtration is based on both absolute and depth filtration.
The pre-filter basket within the MFU is used much like the skimmer in a swimming pool.
It is designed to both protect the pump and collect larger particulate before reaching the main cartridge. In this way the polishing cartridge is more efficient in both result and life.
The main cartridge or polishing filter is a cellulous based depth filter and is rated “nominally”.
We continually monitor both manufacturing processes and quality controls to insure the highest standards are being achieved.
Additionally, we periodically verify through independent test laboratories all specifications are being met.
Results from all filters we have used show nominal filtration results of over 96% efficiency in removing the particulates in the 1-5 micron range.
When using depth filters you will almost always find particulates above the stated rating. This is to say that a nominally rated “5 micron” filter unit can have particulates of a much greater size when examined through particulate counters. It is the efficiencies of the filter that is of greatest importance. Establishing how many of the finest particulates can be removed is the measure of how “good” a filtration job is being performed.
Below is brief explanation from our manual of how these types of filtration work and how we are able to achieve consistent quality results for our customers.
Introduction to filtration...
A barrier exists that will remove virtually any size solid particulate matter one would wish to remove. The utilization of the correct filtration is essential in the design and optimization process in order to -control capital equipment costs, optimizes operational cycle times, maximize overall efficiency in operation and minimize maintenance requirements. The MFU was designed to maximize all of these parameters and not just to focus on any individual benefit.
Filtration overview
There are 2 main types of passive filtration, absolute filtration (normally surface filters) and depth filtration (structures with a tortuous path). The MFU uses both types, an absolute filter as a pump pre-filter and a depth filter as a post pump filter.
Absolute Filters
Absolute filters are usually made of a metal mesh or material screen, and are usually characterized by a single thin layer of regular openings of known size. Absolute filters are designed to operate as a one-pass filter and, generally, the smaller the openings the finer the particle size retained. The main concern with absolute filters is the ratio of filtering surface area to the number of particles to be removed. When particles begin to block the openings, the liquid flow rate through the filter slows. When all of the openings are blocked the filter is blinded and liquid flow stops. Due to the uneven structure of the debris found in fryers the blinding effect is slowed down, and to a certain extent the build up of debris provides an additional filtration surface.
Obviously the smaller the size of the holes the faster is the blinding affect, with major implications for change frequencies, pressure control or pump cavitations if it used as a pre-filter.
The pre filter in the MFU is therefore in the shape of a mesh basket to provide maximum surface area and fluid is drawn from underneath to promote collection of debris in the base of the basket. The mesh holes are set at a micron rating that provides effective pre-filtration for pump protection and at the same time avoids excessive build up of debris in the post filter. The rating is set so that it does not blind too quickly when emptying a normal fryer so that additional operator intervention is not usually required. The MFU requires a pre-filter to protect the gears in the pump from excessive wear and premature failure from foreign objects. It is essential, therefore, that the pre-filter is always in place when using the system.
Depth Filters
Depth filters usually consist of a thick layer or layers of porous material containing irregular or "tortuous" channels. These types of filters are capable of trapping particles of 1 micron or even smaller in diameter, throughout the matrices.
Size for size depth filters do not blind as easily as absolute filters because they have a greater porosity and thus a greater filtering surface area. It is important to appreciate that nominally rated depth filters do not achieve their maximum efficiency with one pass of the oil through the cartridge.
The MFU post pump cartridge is a true depth filtration medium, and through the controlled tightness of the windings the surface traps particles as well as absorbing them into the fibrous structure. If it was too tight the oil flow would be restricted and the pressure required to operate the system increased, too loose and it will not filter correctly.
The aim of the post pump cartridge is to be the final particle retention barrier and to act as a polishing cartridge removing the finer particles of carbon and food debris. It is the fine carbon and food particles that are the main cause of the dirty coloration of the oil. In addition, these small particles promote early oil degradation, cause hotspots and uneven heating of the oil, as well as leaving fine contaminant deposits on future food batches.
However, the fundamental difference from the pre-filter is that these particles are distributed within the cartridge and not just on the surface. This distribution extends the service life to enable the cartridge to last, under normal circumstances, a full day’s operation. Due to the natural nature of the fibre structure distribution of particles will not be regular, and each cartridge will in a sense be unique. There will be considerable darkening at the top and the sides of the cartridge with a marked cleanliness as the oil travels through and down the windings. Larger particles that have passed the pre-filter will tend to collect on the surface area of the cartridge, but due to the pressure exerted by the pump will not blind easily. Smaller particles will distribute in the windings and will not always be visible; this is particularly the case with carbon which will sometimes look like a dark patch.
I hope this clarifies the type of filtration used and the levels we filter down to.
Maybe we can help the student with his studies. I invite the him down to Orlando to see the filtration and tests in action.