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toolsRanting Forum - A Ranter's Soapbox
Submitted by Truth in Franchising on Sat, 2007/09/08 - 18:39.
Anyone with crazy talk, ridiculous paltforms or things that just don't fit anywhere else can post here.
TIF
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After reading all the sad stories of UPS
I can't believe why anyone would be interested in this franchise. UPS, Quiznos, Cuppys, Supper Diners, and the list goes on and on. ,
John this is the problem
That many people do not understand how much due diligence is involved in buying a franchise. How can we educate people out in the world about this important factor before they buy a franchise?
On our 2006 UFOC it says just lawyer to review. Many people have no knowledge of a competant franchise lawyer. Do you see the problem?
After the closing of the business I really started asking guestions about the franchise world. At the expense of looking stupid I did it because I wanted to know where we went wrong. That is also a problem people learn after it is too late
Many bad zors do not freely give the information they need to make an educated decision to sign or not to sign..
People are not stupid Do Diligence
Reading your rants, you would have everyone believe that franchisees are all stupid. In every case it is buyer beware when it comes to making a franchise purchase.
Providing information and advice for over 20 years.
Not stupid
not informed. There is a difference. My opinions come from talking to many zees who have gone out of business in the past year.
I believe my rants have calmed down.
Rants
The fact they are still rants speaks volumes. If most people cannot even figure out due diligence, what makes you think they are smart enough to find this or any other website as part of their process?
Some people are destined to fail, because they never change their process. They expect different results by performing the same acts again and again. This is the definition of insanity.
I feel sorry for these types of people. Sometimes the gene pool needs a bit more chlorine.
General Fran - Providing information and advice for over 20 years.
Stop shouting
General fran, here's some information and advice: turn of the bold type and learn some posting etiquette.
Guest on "Stop shouting"
Thanks for the information and advice.
Now here is some for youself:
Use capitals when spelling a proper noun and...
Proof your comments for correct grammer.
General Fran: Providing information and advice for over 20 years.
General Fran
and I have worked out our differences. I believe General Fran understands the horror we have experienced. I believe our situation is going to get worst before it gets better.
General Fran
and I have worked out our differences. I believe General Fran understands the horror we have experienced. I believe our situation is going to get worst before it gets better.
Re:Stop shouting
CAPS EQUALS SHOUTING!
The Truth Shall Set You Free!
TIF
In my opinion
Do you love people getting hurt and loosing everything that they worked for? Would you like your mother, father, siblings or anyone close to you to be hurt because they weren't informed? Be honest.
I have learned alot the last 14 weeks. The cast on BMM have put up with my early rants and I commend them for it and thank them for what I have learned.
I have actually become friends with a few. One of the most important thing they have taught me is to be a realist in business. I'll even carry it further. I believe that someone who considers a franchise should have a business degree. After my experience with our franchisor they didn't help us much. I called for help to be told the same thing over and over. Others are doing it. The truth only 3 or 4 are doing it. While all the others are struggling and going through the same thing we went through.
One of the reason I write besides warning people of what they need to do to protect themselves is my passion is writing. It is something I have done all my life.
What are you talking about?
You are trying to warn people to stay away from franchising altogether. This is not helping them with making a decision. For many people, buying a franchise is a great opportunity.
I ask you this question: Did you fail at your franchise because the franchisor did you wrong or because you did not follow the system as it was given to you? There is a very distinct difference.
Why do you think some of the franchisees still in your old system are making it while others simply fold? Are the ones still operating the same ones who have been around for awhile or are they ones who closed within one year and not enough capital to see it through to profitability?
The world of franchising is wrought with peril, and for some it spells certain doom while for others, they will reach the apex of success beyond their wildest dreams. I prefer to focus on the positive.
General Fran: Providing information and advice for over 20 years.
What I have learned
Having a Polly Anna attitude is not good in business. Being realistic is the most important thing to consider before any business adventure. Whether it be having a license and doing it on your own or a choosing a franchise system.
You are so wrong
I am warning people of bad zors. If you don't think there are sharks out there that hurt people you are in deep denial. Look at Cuppy's, UPS, Quiznos and 123 fit. You have no idea of what is going on in the dark side of franchising.
I have talked to people who know good zors that really want their zees to be successful.
I have been successful in most everything I have done. I know what went wrong with my franchise because it happened to the zees who went out of business.
If I was a zor I know what I would do. When one looses their trust in their zor it is all over. I knew we got screwed over..
Franchising with old fashion ethics is a brilliant concept. When it is a win win deal than it is good.
Michael Webster said investicating is a better word to use than due diligence. Every person who is interested in franchising has a right to know what to do to protect themselves from sharks. People need to investigate the franchise which is a long process.
It is only doom if people are not informed of what they need to do to make an educated decision to sign or not to sign. The importance of knowing 110% that the franchise you are dealing with is ethical in their business practices and really want you to succeed will show with what is happening with their past and present zees.
What do you mean by some? I know only 3 or 4. 2 making decent money. One is breaking even because she had no build out expense and low rent. I know of another that has rent of $1200 and another $1500. There are reasons for their success that most of us didn't have. I believe there are only 19 left. When we started there were 39 clubs. The CEO closed his two stores. What does that tell you?
Besides anything associated with Quiznos I wouldn't trust. Are you not aware of the many people who have been hurt?
I am not anti-franchising. I am for fair business practices so people will not get hurt.
Besides I have written my story over and over so people will be vigilant and proceed with great caution. Never judge a book by it's cover, you have to dig deeper to find if things are wrong. Signing an agreement with a bad zor will most likely end up in financial hell.
I disclosed what I had for working capital and build out. They told us we could open our doors for $150,000. It was alot more than we were told. They knew how much money we had and took advantage of us at the beginning.
Not an attack on you!
I was not attacking you at all, simply asking some basic questions to find out more about your particular situation, which it seems was horrible.
Did your franchisor control your buildout? Some make you use their own companies, while others let the franchisee choose their own company through a bidding process. If they do not control the buildout, they cannot be liable for cost overruns, change orders or other items.
As for working capital, no franchisor can determine the appropriate amount of working capital needed. It essentially needs to be an amount you as the franchisee needs to have to be able to sleep comfortably at night knowing you can still keep your business up and running. That amount is different for each person.
Did the franchisor take more money than specified on a monthly basis than what was disclosed in the FDD/UFOC documents?
Unfortunately, I do not know the in and outs of your particular franchise, so I cannot speak to the details you offer. I do know that low rent in a great location is everyones dream. Did the franchisor help you in your lease negotiations as well?
Looking forward to learning and hearing from you.
General Fran: Providing information and advice for over 20 years.
General Fran
I hope you understand why I have done what I have. No one likes to feel like they were misrepresented and robbed.
I just spent all day writing my story for "Unhappy Franchisees.com." I should fax it to him tomorrow after correcting a mistake. Sean Kelly is a brillant man who started this to warn people of what they need to do to protect themselves from sharks in the business of franchising. My story is 10 pages long. You should be able to read the details of my story.
You sound like a good person. My story outlines steps that I have learned from all the wise men here on BMM. Who I respect and love them to tear me apart for one reason. To learn the world of franchising. It is like I took a college course in business in 3 months. I know I have just touched the tip of the iceberg. Plus I know many are sick of my story. I have news for you I am sick of my story. Now that I learned what I need to carry on with my life the hard part is coming up. Rebuilding my life to what it was before. Exercising, keeping a clean house, cooking healthy meals for my family and becoming happy again. We still have many obstacles to encounter. I believe the angry mama bear has calmed down alot. I just want to enjoy my life. Once in awhile post here and Blue Maumau and keep up with new information about the world of franchising. Since my kids are grown I may get a degree in business so I can be more obnoxious to people with all that I learned.
When I first started writing on BMM I was a troll and very unhappy. I am working to restore myself. It is hard work. Many burned zees just go away in a quiet desperation and die. I want to turn something bad into something good.
Wish you well
I certainly wish you luck in piecing back your life after such a horrible experience. It has been my experience with others in your position to pick up the pieces and move on without carrying forward any negativity you may have.
It appears you may well be on your way to this point. Continue success in future endeavors.
General Fran: Providing information and advice for over 20 years.
Thanks General Fran
Thanks for understanding the storm we have encountered.
I also wish you success in future endeavors.
Bottom Line
The bottom line is for any potential franchisees or other business owners: Buyer beware and do your homework!!!
Any monies spent in the exploratory phase more than make up for any horror stories you may get into.
Good luck to all and to all a good night.
General Fran: Providing information and advice for over 20 years.
General Fran
From investicating other people's stories in our franchise a great majority never understood how much homework is involved in buying a franchise. No one mentioned due diligence or a franchise lawyer. My conclusions is because of this everyone just saw a successful franchise and an icon in the business of fitness.
The reason people even buy a franchise is because they do not have a business degree or any experience in running a business. Which is the very reason why people shouldn't buy a franchise or go into business on their own. Good zors would really work with their zees. When I shared with several franchise wannabees how much homework is involved they were shocked.
As for mentioning homework you have to spell it out to people. It is not because they are stupid they are not informed. Doing your homework is a process, a long process. Many bad zors do not insist on this. In my opinion they play this to the fullest and take advantage of good people. Is this so hard to understand?
Many bad zors only want to sell you a franchise. Like unethical realtors only want to list or sell you a house.
DoDil Passion for Writing...
You need a new passion.
The Truth Shall Set You Free!
TIF
Do you have a passion TIF?
Is your passion to put down zees and former zees? Are you only nice to them before they sign an agreement? Do you turn into a monster after they sign? Tell us the truth after all your name is "Truth In Franchising."
I gather you don't care
about anyone either.
I am glad I am not like you. You are a true zor through and through.
Re: You may be right
I think this is a common perception that is a pro-zee site. Unfortunately, having anonymous guests post, makes it really hard to determine who is saying what. I've posted using 'jd' for the last year without disclosing the affiliation that I had two years ago (and I don't want to disclose this, because the people I had differences with are no longer there) and TIF has done so for just as long.
I don't really think that everyone needs to know whom the other person's affiliation is, unless they want to disclose it. I don't remember 'Sleep Tight's affiliation, but I do know (s)he was a franchisee. 'Do Diligence' was with 123 Fit, but she states this all of the time, and the people that frequent this board know that.
Personal opinion here, but I think that the best way for a forum like this to thrive, is that everyone knows who they are talking to, which requires anonymous names. Even though you have a person like TIF that will be tough on Sleep Tight and vice versa, I do think there is a level of respect that each of them have for their positions. Fuwa was tought on 'Do', but 'Do' respects Fuwa for his comments, and she has stated that.
Not everyone is going to like each other, but knowing who you talking to is key.
Wishing Bibby was right
I wish that Mr. Bibby was correct. Unfortunately, not everyone is as open to robust debate.
For obvious reasons f'zees may feel it wise not to reveal their identity. But there are equally valid reasons why zor-side professionals would post under a pseudonym. In fact, the ability to post under a pen name enables zor folks to be frank without worrying about career impact.
Paul Steinberg
Franchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400
Okay Nick
I've expressed my opinions of the zor that I worked for in the past, and unlike you, I actually had an 'affiliation' with a particular franchise. I don't work for that franchise anymore (haven't for two years). If you don't respect the fact that I won't say which franchise I worked for, then you can just not respect me, I don't care, because I don't make any money in the franchising world anymore.
I've said this before, but I'll say it again, the franchise I worked for has turned the corner and the people that I disagreed with are no longer there. Therefore, why should I 'out' that franchise, when I think what they are currently doing is 'right'.
The franchise I worked for has never been mentioned on this website and only it has only been mentioned one time on any of the franchise websites and I would refrain from discussing it.
I'm here to answer questions from inside a zor viewpoint and to discuss issues in franchising. You don't get many people that worked for a zor, so I will continue to post anonymously using the 'jd' member name. If you don't like it, then fine, I just won't post, and people can't get any inside details of what happens within a franchise.
Nick, with that being said, would you mind sharing the details of your corporation/partnership (like the financial statements, etc) since if I gave you the franchise I worked for you'd have that information through the CA website. Or if you sit on the Board of an organization, would you like to detail out the inside information of that organization. If not, then please respect my decision to remain posting under the 'jd' member name.
another perspective
Nick:
People have reasons to remain anonymous. I sell my pool of talents in the open market, to the highest bidder. I charges usurious rates for my abilities. At those rates most of my clients don't really want me offering the same advice they pay for free to their competitors. To that end I watch my disclosures very carefully, post generically and never let out trade secrets. By remaining anonymous I am able to let the smaller businesses and individuals have access to the same world class consulting talent that is generally reserved for large corporate entities with deep pockets.
FuwaFuwaUsagi
Nick: Several of my clients
Nick:
Several of my clients are zors. They might not appreciate some of the sentiments I express in this forum regarding individual franchises, franchising in general, industry verticals, branding, or franchises verses independent start-ups.
FuwaFuwaUsagi
Again Nick
How long ago was this? Don't you think it is prudent for me not to hurt the franchisor/franchisees of the company I worked for just two years ago?
How about disclosing the franchisors (with dollar amounts earned) that you've work for in the past? And actually, looking at your website, I really hadn't heard of any of the zors that you worked for, sorry.
I think it is awesome
that you believe that your righteous indignation about anonymity rationally jusitifies trivialization of any anonymously added contributions. Verily, you speak truth when you infer that there are no valid reasons to ever post anonymously! Surely no one would ever attribute JD's postings to his former employer! No one would ever do that. I am certain this would never occur. Ever. Surely Fuwa's business would never suffer if he simply stepped out the closet (not that closet). Surely no suffering there. Your absolutist approach to anonymity strikes a chord within my own anonymous heart, which is why I have made great efforts at every opportunity to include within the context of my postings that (1) I am a humble redneck electrician and (2) I share an unhealthy fascination about pirates with Michael Webster. I know that once readers glean my actual identity, my haphazard postings will no longer be read from the myopic viewpoint of simply yet another post from a raving anonymous lunatic - I will have legitimacy! It changes everything! My postings will actually have value!
However, please understand that this transition fromst underneath the cloak of anonymity, from the "shadows" if you will, takes time. Most will be initially unprepared to withstand the overwhelming warmth, shine and glow of "non-anonymity" - the sheer amount of UV protection that will be necessary to saturate our albino-like skin staggers the mind! But I think we all realize that this is necessary for us to grow from inanity to actually being worthy of communion with the non-anonymous on this site. But I am ready. Ready to bask in the shiny glowing adulation of the non-anonymous. I know I can do this.