Corporate Horror Stories to Amuse

Came across this great story that illustrate getting stuck by the system. I found it and more at

--At one call centre I worked at it was policy to use the customer's name five times, no matter how brief the call. A friend of mine had a lot of trouble with this, so his team leader decided to coach him: listen to his calls and tell him what he should do differently. The very first call they received was from somebody asking for a service they didn't provide. The call went like this. Customer: "Do you provide such and such service?" Employee: "Can I get your name please?" Customer: "Sure, it's John." Employee: "John. John, John, John, John, no we don't, thanks for calling."--I have to admit that I've known a franchise or two that follow the ops manual in just about the same way.

Friendly Cuppy's Coffee Let Go of the Lot of Us

Troubled Cuppy's Coffee let go of many of its head office staff as it moved its headquarters to Muscle Shoals, Alabama. Franchisees grumbled before but now its the staff's turn to tell horror stories.

on September 12th, 2008

Past employees blog

Maybe the employees of Elite and Cuppy's should start a blog themselves. With all the chatter of past employees here imagine what they would say on there own blog. Heck it may even help all the franchisee's out.

on September 11th, 2008

Amy Hiller - Some exemployees rec'd this threating email...

Sounds like a threat to me! What do you think?

----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Amy Hiller
To: Amy Hiller
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 1:19:58 PM
Subject: Update

The Latest from Medina:

As you know, the last payroll has not yet been issued. Issuing payroll checks is the top priority.

Corporate is working diligently with strategic partners to put long-term financing in place. Negative press (blogs and emails) is preventing these relationships from moving forward in a timely manner and therefore making it difficult to fulfill financial obligations (paying employees or building out stores). More specific information about these partnerships will be made available as soon as it is finalized.

Anyone who has interest in this company succeeding, such as:

· A past employee who wants to receive their last paycheck

· A franchisee who wants their store built out

· A franchisee trying to keep their store open and successful must be patient and offer support to allow these relationships to solidify.

We are aware that many of you are already providing us with the support needed to be successful and we are very thankful. We ask for your continued support.

If you have not provided the corporate office with your forwarding email address (as a past employee), please send to [email protected] if you wish to receive future correspondence.

Amy Hiller
VP of Operations
Cuppy's Coffee & More
888-241-4324 ext. 376
[email protected]

on September 11th, 2008

Interesting e-mail (if true)

'Negative press (blogs and emails) is preventing these relationships from moving forward in a timely manner and therefore making it difficult to fulfill financial obligations (paying employees or building out stores)'

Hmm, building out stores.  Isn't that a cost to the franchisees and shouldn't be contingent on them getting long-term financing?  Oh, that's right they've already spent hundreds of thousands of dollars that were supposed to go to those build-outs. 

Note to the any Cuppy's employee out there:  You created this mess, not the blogoshpere. 


on September 11th, 2008


Your so stupid if you think employees are going to believe this bull. Even when Morg owned the company this was their excuse for money issues. They ALWAYS say they have crediters that are going to be working with the company and securing long term credit. IT NEVER HAPPENS. Are you really that ignorant? Never mind don't answer that, we know you are you.
I freakin hope these negative blogs and e-mails are preventing the relationsips from happening. These so called crediters would be mighty stupid to invest anything into Crappy's, oops I mean Cuppy's.
Amy your a joke.
Dale how does it feel to have Amy's big nose up your a$$?
I can not believe after everything this company has done to franchisee's that they are going to send a threatening e-mail such as this. How completly assinine.
Well Amy here is my e-mail gof***[email protected] Please be a sweat heart and pass this along to your knight in shining armor.
We love you Dale. Shoot, I just threw up a little in my mouth.

on September 11th, 2008

To spite your face

Guest writes: I freakin hope these negative blogs and e-mails are preventing the relationsips from happening.

Not smart. After all, if some deep pocket is foolish enough to prop up this company then why do you care?

Just take your "depositor" money and move on with life.

I can see that if your money was coming from the proceeds of fleecing some other sucker.

But if Nabors can convince some investors to pony up cash? Take your money and run.

This is likely a moot point, since any VC firm with sufficient cash is likely to look at the books. Given that Nabors has admitted that previous management received build-out money but put that into "operating accounts" (likely something which the SBA would deem fraudulent conduct) and the stack of monthly "repayment" agreements, I doubt that even the best pitch in the history of Wall Street could persuade anyone with the kind of bucks which are needed here.

I was not the first person to observe that if Nabors really can persuade his creditors to cooperate that the best plan would seem to be a prepackaged restructuring. That would call off the wolves and he might be able to swing some DiP financing on favorable terms.

Any investor would be foolish to invest now, given the potential lawsuits and investigations. But... the picture would change significantly in reorganization, and my guess is that when Cuppy's speaks of trying to create "relationships" it is testing the waters for a prepackaged filing.

Don't know that will work, but it may be the best hope for all parties at this point.

Paul SteinbergFranchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400

on September 12th, 2008

Dumbask Amy

You should run next time you see a franchisee or former employee because you are so stupid you should be b!tch slapped by them until you moo.

You are begging for support because financing is where YOUR next paycheck will come from.

Dale can't articulate a coherent business plan. Wait and see or please be patient is not a business plan. And he has done some very questionable things since he has taken over the company.

He also told Janet Sparks going into debt or diluting his equity wasn't an option. He changed his mind in two weeks time? What happened? Oh yeah, the banks shut the loan disbursements and Eden walked off the jobs because Dale couldn't come up with the 5% down they were asking for.

If Dale does get his long-term financing, can I have my $200K back?

on September 11th, 2008

Translation of Amy Hiller's Email

In other words it's YOUR fault that you haven't been paid, your store hasn't been built-out or your open store isn't doing well. If everyone of you that has been screwed by Cuppy's would shut your pie holes, stop demanding answers, and just bend over again everything would be great. Don't you understand what Dale is doing he's doing for YOU and only for YOU, not for HIM. You're ungrateful louts. And if you think you have it bad now you just screw up my cushy 6 figure gig and see the fury of a woman scorned. You'll get nothing, nothing. (I wonder if (p)Rick Schaden is hiring at Q)

on September 11th, 2008


You left out Amy's little picture where it looks like she's constipated while trying to push one out!

Maybe if Amy or Dale had told the employees that their paycheck was not coming on Friday they could have made other plans. Maybe then they would not have bounced all their checks and had overdraft fees on top of that.

But let's get this straight - you told us our checks would be here on Monday, but you lied. You told us our checks would be here on Tuesday, and then you had Rudy tell us that basically you lied and Wednesday is the magic day. Then on Wednesday you actually had the balls to lie and say that the money was wired when you knew damn well it was not! Continued support? Do you really think we are all still drinking the same kool-aid and believe anything you say when all you have done is lie?

Eden is no longer working on projects because you would not pay them. The payroll company believed you when you said you would wire them money to pay for the bounced check - you did not and now they know you are a liar and they said they told me that they have already contacted the state attorney for criminal action. None of the vendors are being paid. The Fort Walton crew were evicted. Lou the weasal actually yelled at us for wanting our money but now he has slunk away.

But you know, the people here on this blog are actually right, our paychecks are nothing compared to the franchisees. I am sorry that I could not see through Dales and Morgs lies and warn you away from this mess. We are going to sue Dale, Amy, Natalie, and everyone else. They are reading this chuckling thinking that we won't really sue them except they don't know we are actually going to do it. We have already contacted the state and they have already assigned an investigator.

To the franchisees - band together and get a lawyer to do something. Every single one of you needs to to do it. Get Paul Steinberg - he seems to almost know enough about the case to actually be able to do something. If you all get together, it will be easier to afford him. Get the former employees as witnesses - Paul can likely tell you which ones know the most dirt. Dale and Amy have lied to us so much, and we all feel like such fools for believing it, that we would be glad to help you ream them a new one. The funnyest part is that they think we still will swallow the lies. Get Dales log cabin which he has fully paid for. Get Amy's new house and car (Chrysler 300) paid for by the company. Take it all and use whatever you get to help you out. If enough of you contact the state, they will pay attention. Don't bother with the FTC or the BBB, both of them don't really do anything. Stick with your state and Florida and Alabama. Swarm the state offices. Get their attention. Dale and Amy don't care about the blogs. Hit their pocketbooks where they are spending your money on taking out Dale's wife to lunch. When they stop going to lunch, maybe they will be there to answer your questions.

on September 11th, 2008

I didn't think fat ass girls like Amy got constipated...

You are an ex-employee who really knows what is going on. Yes, we zees are going after them and going after them hard and fast. I will not rest until I have justice with Dale "FRAUD" Nabors. I want to see him and who ever else stole my hard earned money serve time behind bars......We already have ex-employees who have contacted me personally who are willing to testify against them.
I am opening my coffee shop independently from Cuppy's, screw them. My shop will be a success on our own.Yes, we all are sticking together and contacting the attorney generals of our own state as well as Florida and Alabama. We are taking this to a federal level.
We need as many ex-employees to help us.
Thank you..
p.s. How do you know when Dale Nabors and Amy Hiller are lying???
Yep, I;m gonna own Dale's little log cabin.....when I get through w/ him!

on September 11th, 2008


We sat there with the Fort Walton crew and waited for hours for the wire that was supposedly sent but never was and never will. We sat there and talked and they kept telling us it was coming. I knew that it wouldn't come but the people in that suite kept checking, and they got more and more angry when it become clear that the money wasn't coming. The day before they were trying to calm us down. That day we were trying to calm them down! They were told a wire was coming by Frankie and they were clicking on their screens every ten minutes and...nothing. No one called any of us to say that they lied when they said the wire was coming and then we get Amy's dumb email. I hope you get your money. I hope I get my money. I can't believe I worked for that bastard.

on September 11th, 2008

Good luck!

God knows they deserve a world of pain.--

Richard Solomon,,  has over 45 years experience with franchise litigation and crisis management. He is a graduate of The Citadel and The University of Michigan Law School

Posted by RichardSolomon on September 12th, 2008


If you past employees and franchisees believe this big fat “pineywood rooter” (Amy Hiller) is telling you the truth, then I want to sell you some oceanfront property in Muscle Shoals, Alabama. Dale Nabors ain’t going to pay YOU or EX or CURRENT or ANY employees or franchisees “doodlee squat.” This is a stalling tactic that Dale has put his secretary errrrrrrrrr…I mean VP of Operations up to telling you fools. She has been trained to lie and decieve just like her boss Dale Nabors. He told you fools Wednesday he had wired the money…did that happen? Hell no! He lied his ass off once again to you people. This has been Dale’s M/O that started 3 months ago when he quit paying employees monies owed. This was after he had someone other than himself fire these people. Don’t believe this horse shit. Nobody in their right mind would loan Dale Nabors the sweat off their ass. After hearing the way he has treated the franchisees and his loyal employees that stood by his worthless lieing, deceitful ass. The only time this man will lie is if he is with someone or by himself. Now he has his “new puppet,” Amy Hiller mimicking his every move. DON’T YOU PEOPLE FOR A MINUTE THINK THERE’S A PARTNERSHIP WITH ANYONE OTHER THAN THE DEVIL.

on September 12th, 2008

Gosh, whoever you are...I love & you are

on the same page. RIGHT ON, MAN....POST MORE.....

on September 12th, 2008

amy- do some work

I can't believe this woman is VP of Operations- Take advice- most of the problems wrong with Cuppy's are THE OPERATIONS. Wake up and start working. Don't sit at your computer all day and get a job done. If you start doing work you will see you may be able to solve a problem. Ok, let's not get too far- that may never happen

on September 19th, 2008

amy- do some work

I can't believe this woman is VP of Operations- Take advice- most of the problems wrong with Cuppy's are THE OPERATIONS. Wake up and start working. Don't sit at your computer all day and get a job done. If you start doing work you will see you may be able to solve a problem. Ok, let's not get too far- that may never happen

on September 19th, 2008


"Guest" writes: Franchisees grumbled before but now its the staff's turn to tell horror stories.

No, the franchisees did not "grumble." They raised legitimate points about missing "refundable deposit" money, shoddy construction, and having six-figure loans disbursed with no work being done.

That is not grumbling. Some of those allegations sound in fraud and all of those are legitimate concerns.

Contrast that with the "staff" who wants their "turn to tell horror stories."

Are we speaking of the same staff who happily cashed their paychecks while phones rang off the hooks and emails went unanswered? The same staff who had a daycare center while franchisees waited in vain for construction crews that never arrived?

So long as Morgan passed along a few drops of gravy, the staff was happy and turned a deaf ear to the franchisee plea.

When Nabors stops giving them cash filched from "depositor" and "build-out" money then they squeal like fat pigs deprived of a slop tray.

Worst case for the staff is that they apparently got stiffed on their last weekly paycheck. Well, they can use the crying towel. Just stand in line behind all the franchisees that lost their life savings.

Paul SteinbergFranchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400

on September 12th, 2008

Cupppy enough is enough

Let's just change this website to Cuppys bitch forum.

on September 12th, 2008

It is easy to say enough is enough when Cuppy's investors write

When you haven't been hurt. The people who have been hurt want to tell the whole world about what hurt them. I was hurt termendously by a bad zor. I constantly wrote and told my story. Why? I wanted to understand what happened? Many people here want and need to tell their horror stories. I would like to think the Cuppy's victims are here to warn people.

The internet is here to stay and people have a right to share their stories about a scam that may have taken all their retirement and savings. Many may have had to go bankrupt. That in itself is trumatic. Many Cuppy's investors have never been put in a bad financial situation.They lived a decent life. (B.C) Before Cuppy's.

I say Cuppy's people bitch all you want and more. I am on the the side of the people who have had to suffer because they were not informed or put their good faith in bad people. I have read enough to believe that Cuppy's take advantage of people. I say write on!!!


on September 13th, 2008

Where did the money go...

It seems that all you zees are forgetting who owned the businesses. That would be Robert Morgan then and Dale Nabors now. Those are the ONLY 2 people that had control of you money. If they said the Frankie Marquis not to write a check to so-n-so, she didn't. You want to know were your money went you should check out Morg and Dale's check books. NO ONE ELSE! HELL NEITHER OF THEM PAID THEIR EMPLOYEES HARDLY ANYTHING.

on September 13th, 2008



It is now the 26th and I know that I have yet to receive my final check and make the assumption that no one else has either. Below is a list of contact information and steps for filing the necessary complaints (If you haven’t already done so):

1) Contact the US Department of Labor ( and file a complaint. The phone number is (866) 4-USWAGE.

2) Once you have made contact with them and advised our situation they are going to provide you with contact information to the local office that is closest to you. (Make sure that you notate the date and time that you contact them. If more than 3 business days passes after leaving a message for your local office, contact the US Department of Labor once again and they will directly forward your complaint information to the nearest office.) The Jacksonville office is the one that is closest to us. Their contact info is as follows:

Jacksonville Area:
USDOL, Wage and Hour Division
ESA Wage & Hour Division
Charles E. Bennett Federal Building
400 West Bay Street, Room 956, Box 017
Jacksonville, Florida 32202
(904) 359-9292
(904) 359-9279 (Fax Number)

3) Because we have not been paid it is assumable that Dale Nabors did not take it upon himself to pay the government on the money that we are owed either. You can contact the IRS Tax Fraud Unit at (800) 829-0433. They will direct you to either send a letter to them or complete and mail IRS Form 3949A. Below is a link to the IRS Form 3949A. I have completed this form and have included the letter that was received from ACC in regards to the termination of their relationship with Medina as well as the emails that Ms. Hiller sent out to us. The address to mail the form to is:

Internal Revenue Service
Fresno, California 93888

Hopefully, this will give Dale Nabors more of a reason to pay us what we have earned outside of the fact that we are rightfully due the money.

on September 26th, 2008

Great Post

Now this is the type of post to make when you are trying to get something accomplished and getting others to do the same. 

Good luck in getting the paycheck owed to you.

on September 26th, 2008


I received a copy of this e-mail I believe was sent to Dale Nabors today

Dale, I sent you a text message early today "begging" you to please help us out for the sake of the two small children's lives you are affecting,my grandaughter Kaliegh and my grandson Triston.They are both just two years old and they certainly deserve better than what is about to happen to them because you can't seem to find it in your heart to help us in these dire times for us. Our power will be cut off in the next few days,if we don't have rent by tomorrow we will be asked to leave our home.We have nine dollars in our bank account and can,t even get a response from you.I was obviously wrong about you,you are not a good person.Imagine if your children were put in the position that you are putting these two year olds in.I know for a fact that each and everyone of your employees would give the shirt off their back for the sake of your kids.But not you.You are about to get what you deserve.If I don't receive my full paycheck tomorrow then I will be contacting the SBA administration and letting them know that I know for a fact that you committed fraud[Steve Ottjepka and John DeVine] and I will follow up with all the state investigating agencies.If this was about me then I would let it go but when you lack the human decency to treat people with the respect they deserve and refuse to do the right thing for the children then you are a person that does not deserve to continue to enjoy even the simple pleasures of life[watching your kids grow].Even after all of this is over[you filing bankruptcy seems to be the rumor] I am the type of person that will not rest until you have gone through exactly what you have put my family through.Do you know that Amy Rynearson is pregnant and is expecting December 1st? How can you do this to her family? You have asked people to follow you to Alabama and you are prepared to leave them stranded with no regard for their families.Do not take this as a threat,I have been loyal up until today but the loyalty ends today.You need to be taught a lesson of life and if God has put me in the position to teach you that lesson then I will devote whatever time and energy is needed for me to fulfill this mission.You are about to suffer the consequences of not showing common decency to your fellow man.Even as I write this e-mail I will ask God that your soul be spared and that your children never be put in the position of having to rely on the morals of a person such as their father.Whatever actions I will be taking in the future regarding you I trust that the Good Lord will forgive me for he knows the task I am about to take on.God save the people you have screwed[Franchisees and Employees].So if my paycheck does not show up tomorrow then I will put my plan "B" in motion[I always told you I would have a plan "B"].You and I will see each other again,I guarantee this,I am not sure when I will be there but rest assured I will show up either at your house or at work so that you and I can "settle our differences".It might not happen tomorrow or next week but it will happen eventually.The last thing I have to say is stop stringing your employees and Franchisees along.I have tried to let as many people I can get a hold of that you have no intentions of getting them built out and I hope the employees are starting to see that you have destroyed Cuppy's and you are prepared to take them down with you. May God have mercy on your soul.

on September 26th, 2008


I am a current employee that Dale is not paying any wages to because he says he does not have the money even to pay current wages. I have access to the numbers and I need this message to get out to all Franchisees-whoever reads this please pass this on to all concerned-Cuppys is on the verge of filing for bankruptcy-everybody needs to take appropriate action immediately.I also know that the fraud division of the SBA was contacted by a current employee who knows for a fact that Dale Nabors has committed fraud.Everybody that suspects fraud concerning their disbursed money needs to contact their lender immediately and ask the bank to launch their own investigation-the ball is rolling-lets rock!!!

on September 26th, 2008

Cuppys employees: karma's a bitch

"Rely on the morals" of Dale Nabors?!!!

Now that's the pot calling out the kettle!

So if you got your money, all would be well and you would keep the secrets. But if you are not paid, then and only then will you go to the SBA.

You disgust me more than Nabors, Morgan, Hayes, and Snowden combined.

You had no trouble taking your paycheck each week, knowing that paycheck was coming from the proceeds of this fraud which you daily assisted in perpetrating.

Spare us your lectures. Take a look in the mirror.

If you really feel that bad, give back all the money you made from working this con game.

Paul SteinbergFranchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400

on September 26th, 2008


Paul-you are as ignorant as they come-the employees as well as the Franchisees were all scammed by these folks-we just didn't have as much to lose as the franchisees.I guess in your books if you didn't lose more than $30,000 then you don't qualify to be in this group.I am surprised that you didn't see that this employees e-mail was used to entice Dale to pay his employees.The SBA investigation has already begun[this employee has already been contacted and has cooperated with the investigators].You think the Franchisees are the only ones that have been lied to regarding operations,disbursements,equipment orders?Can we please get somebody more qualified than this "Paul" to comment?

on September 26th, 2008

My apologies to Cuppy's employees

My apologies. You are correct.

All the web postings over the past 2 years.

All the threats from Cuppy's lawyers against zees who lost their money.

All the "deposit" money that disappeared.

All the stories about the Snowden "sale" to Morgan.

All the calls from franchisees asking where their money went.

All the franchisees who showed up (some with lawyers in tow) at the Ft Walton office.

All the shell companies.

All the mark-ups as construction contracts were flipped like it was a poker game.

All the hidden ownership in the construction companies.

All the employees pressuring zees to wire money today.

All the "escrow" money that was never really in escrow.

Ahh.... the good old days.

When Morg ruled the roost, the marks were still kicking in the cash, and the good times rolled.

Yeah. You didn't know 'nuthin. Nuthin at all.

Yeah. You didn't say 'nuthin. Nuthin at all.

Stealing millions of dollars is ok, so long as you take the kids to church on Sunday. Hey, if Jesus had wanted that franchisee money put in the escrow account, he woulda put it there himself.

But let Dale Nabors cut off the gravy train, and we're ready to spill the beans.

You didn't talk to the SBA when you were living off the misery of those franchisees for whom you now cry crocodile tears. The franchisees are not that stupid as to believe that you are helping them for any reason other than revenge. No need to suddenly get a conscience to justify your clarity of vision, revenge is a perfectly rational motive for your newfound loquaciousness.

Guess it goes to prove the old axiom: No honor among thieves.

Paul SteinbergFranchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400

on September 26th, 2008

Paul Ignorant???

You show your own ignorance by calling Paul names. He's more honest than anyone my husband and I ever talked to, he shot from the hip and was full of true character. We saw very little of that from anyone we dealt with at Cuppy's. Someone is not ignorant simply because you do not like what they say.

The anger and moral indignation that former Cuppy's employees are voicing is absolutely hysterical to me. These are the same people that would not return calls and lied to people over the phone as they waited for their stores to open and their financial futures were ruined. In addition, aren't you the same employees that were getting on the blogs and telling the public how crazy the bloggers were? That Cuppy's was a fabulous company, a real family!! What a freakin' joke. Take your indignation and shove it up your cuppy!!

on September 26th, 2008

Paul Ignorant???

Just because I said Paul is ignorant is not name calling.This simply implies that he does not have the knowledge or all the facts to be voicing his opinions and have any credibility to them.Your opinion of Paul can not be credible either because lets be honest here you got scammed into believing in this company and look where that belief got you

on September 26th, 2008

Paul Ignorant??

We may have gotten scammed but I am not nor have I ever whined about it. We have just watched all of this unfold with interest as we file personal bankrupcy. We started the process back in 2005 when there was none of this imformation out there. I have little sympathy for the people who continued to give any of them money after the news broke from the Scobles in Jan. 2006. Unfortunately we had just opened and it was too late for us. I do however take exception with people like you who seem to have no real stake in any of this except for morbid curiousity which begs the question why you don't have more in your life!

My opinion of Paul is just that, an opinion. However, yours is a personal attack, which I have every right to respond to. As for Paul not knowing anything, he knows the law and if there is information he does not have he is always very careful about saying that he needs more info or to research the topic further.

"Just because I said Paul is ignorant is not name calling" Sounds like it to me! Anyway go find another hobby and let people who are really trying to salvage an answer out of this fiasco, keep discussing!

on September 26th, 2008

Paul ignorant

Don't you see what you have just said? Yes Paul might know the law but yet he continues to voice his opinion on whether or not that employee was just ignorant or a bad person.He doesn't know what that particular employee'grasp of the entire situation was-he just says what the Franchisee wants to hear and then the Franchisee automatically thinks he is correct because he is a lawyer.The people that choose to buy into that line of thinking deserve to be scammed and Paul is doing that-he has you believing him without knowing all of the facts.

on September 26th, 2008

Follow the money

They ain't buying anything from me. I practice locally and have not gotten a single dime from any Cuppy's franchisee.

Unlike you, who make your living off of getting dimes from Cuppy's franchisees.

Oh... sorry. Forgot you are on the unemployment line now.

Well, the Dept of Labor can chase after Dale for that last paycheck. Hope you choke on the money; it is the money sucked out of all those franchisees you fleeced.

Paul SteinbergFranchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400

on September 26th, 2008

Follow the money

Wrong again Paul-I still work for Cuppys and I know first hand what the intentions of the company actually are.Are they happening the way Dale envisioned-no,but you are part of the problem and I am one of the ones looking for a solution for the Franchisee.

on September 26th, 2008

A Solution

A solution would be to pay back the people owed money.

A solution would be to construct the stores of people who already paid for them.

If the company is insolvent, a solution would be to stop this circus and take cooperate with law enforcement to recover any money from previous owner/manager/employees.

If BMM and other sites such as FranchisePick were not there, there is no doubt in my mind that even more people would be sucked in on a daily basis.

Paul SteinbergFranchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400

on September 27th, 2008

Dale's vision

Of course! Dale never envisioned that the flow of money from SBA loans of poor zees would stop! How can that be?? Morg got away with letting zees wait 10 months, 1 year, or more, after their SBA loan closed and gave Morg the money! By the time they open up, they're already broke! Do you know how much monthly interest these SBA loans cost??! You bet it's more than what you're getting as a monthly paycheck!

If not for BMM and lawyers like Paul Steinberg, these crooks would still be in business - putting people in bankruptcy, divorce - taking people's life savings and ruining people's lives!

What goes around comes around.... you would all have your proper time... in jail!

on September 27th, 2008

Intentions and Actions

Guest writes: "I know first hand what the intentions of the company actually are.Are they happening the way Dale envisioned-no,but you are part of the problem and I am one of the ones looking for a solution for the Franchisee" 

Good lord man, wake up and stop drinking the Kool-aid.  

$27 Million and what does Cuppy's have to show for it in construction, I mean other than odd invoices? 

Michael Webster PhD LLBFranchise News

Posted by michael webster on September 27th, 2008

Paul Ignorant

No, I don't know what I just said that would make you think that I deserved to be scammed. The point that you miss is that, excuse me, the biggest of the points that you are missing is how absolutely ludicrous it is to hear you harping about one small element of what I've written and ignore the rest.

Paul does not work for us, he gets nothing for helping people sift through the foolishness that is Cuppy's on this forum. What "facts" am I missing? You're right that many of the people that we dealt with back in 2005-2006 may not still work there, or be the ones getting cheated out of their paychecks. However, I would venture to say that the ones that worked there most recently may even be worse because they were hired during the fiasco. Since the day they were hired, if they were hired after Jan. 2006, Cuppy's has been ensconced in controversy.

By the way, if all of these employees were just scammed like the poor franchisees, why are they all threatening to go public with "what they know?" That doesn't sound like people who are innocent to me!

on September 27th, 2008

Paul ignorant???

How do you know these are the same people? Again you have people telling you information and just like when you got scammed you are believing them unconditionally.I think the problem with this scam was probably you.

on September 26th, 2008

My apologies to Cuppy's employees

Paul I think you need to stop commenting-you are showing your ignorance even more.Have you talked to any employees directly to get the facts? No,you just continue to group all of the employees in one bad bag because it is easier to justify your comments.I hope you don't handle your other cases this way-I would hate to think that you just get the facts that help your side of the argument and then act like you are "right and just" and anyone that has more information that would prove you wrong has to be on the "bad" side.Surely you are a better lawyer than that.Is a Franchisee attorney like a real attorney?

on September 26th, 2008

What was your role in fleecing the Mark?

I didn't steal money from franchisees and then have the gall to whine about it.

That whining is what is so annoying about Cuppy's (or whatever entity du jour employed you) employees.

Under Morg's leadership, you suckered the marks out of millions of dollars. Then you whine about missing a lousy one paycheck while the marks are getting foreclosed on the courthouse steps.

At least Dale isn't whining. And Morg played the game, knew when to fold 'em, and my guess is that he is judgment proof.

Yes, I am a "real" attorney.

And you are a real con artist.

Paul SteinbergFranchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400

on September 26th, 2008

what was your role in fleecing the mark

Why Paul,are you name calling?

on September 26th, 2008

If the shoe fits

"Guest" writes: Why Paul,are you name calling?

  1. People gave refundable "deposit" monies.
  2. They were told the money would be placed in escrow accounts. In some cases, payees even wrote notes to that effect in the memo section of the check.
  3. Those monies disappeared.
  4. The "depositors" did not get their money back.
  5. Other people took out SBA loans.
  6. Elite Manufacturing and/or entities under the common control of Morgan/Nabors tendered documents evidencing proof of entitlement to disbursement to the banks.
  7. The goods and/or services specified on the tendered documents were never received by the borrower who was the beneficial owner of the disbursed monies.
  8. The borrowers remain liable to repay the loans.
  9. If they dont repay, an agency of the Federal Government will pursue them and will take away their house and throw their family out on the street.
  10. Cuppy's hired a goon attorney to threaten people with ruinous litigation if they didn't agree to take the name "Cuppy's" off of blog postings and settle with your company by signing settlement agreements with gag clauses.
  11. Those monies were to be paid in monthly installments.
  12. Many people (perhaps even a majority) who signed the agreements remain unpaid.
  13. Anyone who attempted to criticize Cuppy's was pressured, and some even threatened with litigation. Even "Wikipedia" entries were wiped clean by "PseudoMega" who was in reality a Cuppy's employee acting at the direction of and under the direct supervision of a top-ranking company executive.
  14. The officers and employees of the company and its related entities acted in concert to squelch all criticism of the company, to hide the settlement agreements, to prevent people from publicizing the non-payment of the monies lawfully due them, to continue selling franchises, to sell via a "construction" company in violation of multiple statutes, to apply for and obtain federally-guaranteed loan monies which were not used for the explicit purpose intended nor even for the benefit of the intended beneficiary.

Do you really want me to continue and give a more explicit road map to someone to sue your thieving butt?

Paul SteinbergFranchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400

on September 27th, 2008

Some Additional Facts

You might also want to consider these facts.

1.  There are documents which show that Dale drew down on an SBA approved loan using an invoice which was falsified.

2.  The alleged trust set up for the benefit of the Java Jo's depositor's no longer has an attorney overseeing it, and appears not to be paying out.

3.  The total amount of SBA loans that Morgan/Dale was able to access was $27 million.  Where are the $27 million of construction?

4.  Cuppy's and Elite made illegal earnings representations to Funding Solutions, who were agents of the franchisees, in order to access SBA approved lenders.  This may have the element of a RICO claim.

Michael Webster PhD LLBFranchise News

Posted by michael webster on September 27th, 2008

Hair o'the dog @ Cuppys

Webster writes: There are documents which show that Dale drew down on an SBA approved loan using an invoice which was falsified.

The sad irony is that the only thing that might have worked to salvage this wreck is a hair o'the dog :  by getting the loan money disbursed based on an artificially-inflated invoice and then using the "profit" to fund completion of the other buildouts (the ones which Morg got the money for and did not construct).

The problem is that once the banks cut off the spigot, that plan was dead.

....oh, and there is that tiny matter of the federal guaranty making such action a federal offense....

It is unfortunate that Nabors took over at precisely the time that people were wising-up to this whole scam, but my guess is that Morgan's timing on the sale to Nabors was not coincidental.

If Webster is correct, I agree that it does not excuse Nabors. But...

It does go to the issue of motive, and suggests that Nabors figured out the only way (albeit an illegal one) to save this franchise system...and not incidentally, to save the life savings of the open franchisees as well as the depositor/unopened franchisees.

Kind of sadly ironic, if that is what went on.

Paul SteinbergFranchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400

on September 27th, 2008

Means justifying the ends?


What Dale did was not primarily ironic; it was clearly illegal. But a lovable scamp nonetheless, eh? 

You barely made up with the "vacationing in Barrie" reference.

Les Stewart MBA Understanding Franchising

Posted by Les Stewart on September 27th, 2008

Nabors clarification

Les: the irony is that the scheme perpetrated by Morgan was illegal. Yet, continuing the scheme (only using the money to actually do the buildouts) was the only way to salvage the franchise system.

No, I don't find Nabors "lovable" and I have been critical of his ethics, as you are well aware.

But I do think that Nabors genuinely believed (rightly so) that this was the only way to salvage the company. Certainly he did not do this for altruistic motives; he figured that once he got thru the crisis and had 300 stores open that he could cash in his chips.

So having sought the monetary reward, I have no problem with him paying the price for failure (if we did that with Fannie and Freddie, we wouldn't have socialized failure).

But it is still not a happy time, and this failure is going to be another blow to all of the franchisees who have been slaughtered by Snowden/Morgan/Hibbing/Hayes/Nabors and their ilk.

Paul SteinbergFranchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400

on September 27th, 2008

The lesser of two franchisors


That may be so in the final analysis. 

Just so another of your points isn't lost from this situation, from the franchise investors' point of view:

  • it doesn't matter the intent (malice or incompetence), the outcome is the same.

Maybe it's true: You'd lose your lunch if you saw how hot dogs were made and that Dale's bad luck is that BMM was simply recording the events accurately.

  • Maybe Cuppy's is the story of every system's development, but without the memory loss that confidentiality agreements bring?

Les Stewart MBA

Understanding Franchising

Posted by Les Stewart on September 28th, 2008

IFA party line

Les Stewart writes: Maybe Cuppy's is the story of every system's development, but without the memory loss that confidentiality agreements bring?


Les, the IFA position is that all franchisors are created equal. This is simply not true, and Cuppy's (which remains an IFA member in good standing) is an example of why the IFA is wrong.

Most franchise systems don't skirt the law by having a "construction company" (which incidentally, doesn't actually construct anything) sell franchises.

Most franchise systems don't fake invoices and submit them to banks to get federally-guaranteed money f/b/o a franchisee, and then take that money and spend it on god-knows-what.

The franchise industry maintains this fiction that franchisors can do no wrong in the erroneous belief that any chink in the armor would diminish the clout of the unified "voice of franchising" and open the door for regulation.

That belief is erroneous precisely because legislators and regulators can see for themselves that there is a problem and that bad actors are not suffering any reputational damage or otherwise being constrained by their industry peers.

As we have seen from recent events in the financial markets, when a lack of self-regulation leads to negative externalities (particularly externalities borne by taxpayers) then it is not simply the offenders who may be punished, the entire industry may end up subject to increased scrutiny and regulation.

Here, the Cuppy's fiasco will likely result in a number of families losing their homes and declaring bankruptcy, and given the weak housing market the SBA may end up still forking over money even after foreclosing on the Cuppy's franchisees.

Of course, maybe the SBA could seize some of those infamous Coach handbags ;)

Paul SteinbergFranchisee Attorney, New York City, Ph: 212-529-5400

on September 29th, 2008

Irony and Fraud

Michael Webster PhD LLBFranchise News

Posted by michael webster on September 28th, 2008

Paul you a tiger

All the lawyers on BMM are tigers!


on September 28th, 2008